Expanded Nations Packs released!

[Renojustin]

Disregard my posts, it's been a long night and a long time since I last played Dom3.

[Gandalf Parker]

Those problems are being fixed altho we might have to wait for the next patch.\
http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html

[Renojustin]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Those problems are being fixed altho we might have to wait for the next patch.\
http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html

1000-->2000 looks awesome... and yes I afraid I can't use those packs as stated in the mod intro without going over. And Ogres always wipe themselves out in SP, maybe I'll sub Wood Elves...

[Gandalf Parker]

I havent looked at the race, but it sounds like it might be like the problem that Mictlan often has in vanilla play. Their needs are so specific that they are extra susceptable to random choices in pretender and scales. The fix would be the same. Assigning logical god/magic/scales is always good for AI anyway but extra recommended for nations like that.

There are different ways of doing that. By manually selecting it as a "human player" and then setting it to Computer Player in the first round. Or it can be done with map commands. Or you can use a program like SemiRand to assign them randomly so that you dont know what they have altho Im not sure how you would get SemiRand to recognize added nations

I really have to finish something for Solo Play suggestions. A sticky thread or a web page

[Renojustin]

Yeah I've been playing for years, did some MPs; I usually just start Ogres off with good scales, immortal pretender, and a sacrificer of the highest Holy level I can, then leave them to their fate. Altdorf has been fun so far but wow they start slow on magic, had to begin with awake Great Sage. What an incredible army they have.. and once their magic gets going it would seem hard to stop. Probably the strongest Warhammer race I've played, and I've done all but Sylvania now in multiple games.

[WraithLord]

"Probably the strongest Warhammer race I've played," Care to elaborate on that?

[Renojustin]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

"Probably the strongest Warhammer race I've played," Care to elaborate on that?

The others generally seem very well balanced against non-mod nations... but having heavy access to all flavors of magic other than blood is clearly a bit much even with gem fees. This becomes even more apparent when coupled with their very versatile and supercharged army units. Tribute to Order should probably be made capital-only for starters. Some of the heavy plate for the troops seems overdone and non-canon as well, especially Greatswords.

Even the Flagellants are scary; with a few forts, you can really get a critical mass of them going, and a water or fire bless takes them over the top. You're not losing much by going for Generals over the cheap mages and getting large advantages in resource expenditure for the cost. 180pp for 3H 2-move priests is very cheap. They segue into Death extremely easily.

Pretty much all they need is access to a decent independent battlemage, very common and easy to find, and Altdorf is well-nigh unstoppable the way they stand now. I would hate to play against them in MP.

--obviously this should be in the Altdorf thread if there is one, sorry about that.

[rdonj]

Keep in mind that empire isn't a finished nation yet, and due to the whole "every mage that's worthwhile costs gems" mechanic it may have some fine tuning to do yet. But before the most recent version, empire has felt on the weak side if anything.

So the latest version of empire has fairly cheap level 2 mages in all paths save blood now. This is pretty much the big thing this nation has going for it, cheap diversity. The recruitable mages are absolutely useless except for research and summoning your real mages. So while you do get a lot of diversity, you are spending gems to have your mages that you can't spend elsewhere. So while it is cheap to get diversity, and a lot cheaper than many other nations get as far as access to non-national paths goes, this nation does have to keep investing because all of its mages are diversity mages. It is the main strength of the nation though.

On the other hand its army is hardly awesome. It's pretty mediocre, in fact. Pretty much anything you can recruit is more or less the bog standard of average, with only a few standout units. Marksmen due to being the cheapest and most massable arbalest-wielding guys ever are the biggest of these. Nothing else is really better than usable. Swordsmen are good arrow catchers, and their cavalry is decent. Tribute to order summons quite nice cavalry units, but they're gold inefficient compared to the recruitable knights, with the exception of the inner circle reiksguard. And flagellants are those same guys marignon gets, and that you get from random events, with the exception of a few more hp. Which, while they do work, are still not that amazing. The big benefit of them is that they're very, very cheap. Even greatswords aren't amazing, you really need the retinues to make them justifiable because they recruit/move so slow.

I definitely don't think altdorf is the strongest of the warhammer mods right now. I'm not sure who I quite think is, but there are several contenders. I had the luxury of playing Itza before they got nerfed hard, and would have had no trouble saying they were the strongest in the past Maybe they still are, but they've lost a lot of their potency lately.

[Renojustin]

Originally Posted by rdonj

Keep in mind that empire isn't a finished nation yet, and due to the whole "every mage that's worthwhile costs gems" mechanic it may have some fine tuning to do yet. But before the most recent version, empire has felt on the weak side if anything.

So the latest version of empire has fairly cheap level 2 mages in all paths save blood now. This is pretty much the big thing this nation has going for it, cheap diversity. The recruitable mages are absolutely useless except for research and summoning your real mages. So while you do get a lot of diversity, you are spending gems to have your mages that you can't spend elsewhere. So while it is cheap to get diversity, and a lot cheaper than many other nations get as far as access to non-national paths goes, this nation does have to keep investing because all of its mages are diversity mages. It is the main strength of the nation though.

On the other hand its army is hardly awesome. It's pretty mediocre, in fact. Pretty much anything you can recruit is more or less the bog standard of average, with only a few standout units. Marksmen due to being the cheapest and most massable arbalest-wielding guys ever are the biggest of these. Nothing else is really better than usable. Swordsmen are good arrow catchers, and their cavalry is decent. Tribute to order summons quite nice cavalry units, but they're gold inefficient compared to the recruitable knights, with the exception of the inner circle reiksguard. And flagellants are those same guys marignon gets, and that you get from random events, with the exception of a few more hp. Which, while they do work, are still not that amazing. The big benefit of them is that they're very, very cheap. Even greatswords aren't amazing, you really need the retinues to make them justifiable because they recruit/move so slow.

The mage system for Altdorf will be tough to get used to, and I can see neonates having issues with it. The gem usage seems to be right on, but at such low levels of research, they still seem very powerful. The ? mages themselves (no lab required) all carry useful battle magic lines, and at 60gp/3 research, all it takes to turn them from useful to very efficient is a +1 magic scale. I see most of the difficulty of the use of Altdorf in the proper use of their mages. Do you research, site search, or fight? The fact that they can do all these without much opportunity loss I think makes them very handy.

Their army is both diverse and extremely powerful. From excellent crossbows to the superb Swordsmen: 12gp 2-move heavy infantry (and they are in most respects HI), cheap heavy lance/full plate cavalry and big-hp Flagellants that get to do their devastating attacks significantly more often than even a normal Flagellant because they can survive... there's not a bad troop in the bunch, and more, they're SO, SO CHEAP. Given that it will take some production scales to take advantage of most of it, but even their 8g/8r dual-wielding, ambidextrous infantry is usable and effective. Production isn't even necessary between that, Generals (the Greatswords are free, mind you), and (oh my god 13/7) Marksmen. I cannot think of any non-mod nation that could beat them in a straight army fight. Add in Reiksguard Cavalry and it's just not fair; those basically do not die. Knights of the Rose were charging them to no avail; they are a wicked tool.

It's exactly as if someone thought, I want to min/max this army for gp expenditure and upkeep, while keeping everything about the specific unit types that makes them great... oh and add some armor, too. Not only do they get the job done in grand Empire fashion, they do it cheaper than almost anyone. I just figured that the mage system was in place in order to hobble them, but by mid-game the astounding diversity has got to help them more than anything. I can see them having more difficulty in the endgame where more ritual magic is being cast... but by then they've survived and thrived, and they can throw everything in the book at you, if not as much of it as a like-sized opponent can bring to bear.

[WraithLord]

What are the Reiksguard Cavalry stats and cost?- What makes them so good?
Are they better 1:1 than say, Bretonn knights of the realm or grail knights?

I did start an MP game with Altdorf but didn't have time to get far...

EDIT, by "Reiksguard Cavalry" did you mean Inner Circle Reiksguard Knight?
EDI2, if so I found their stats (below) looks good but not broken good unless I'm missing something.
#hp 12
#size 3
#mounted
#ressize 2
#prot 0
#mor 13
#mr 10
#enc 5
#str 12
#att 12
#def 12
#prec 11
#mapmove 2
#ap 18
#gcost 65
#rcost 6
#armor "Empire Full Plate"
#armor "Full Helmet"
#weapon "Broad Sword"
#weapon "Lance"
#weapon 710
#armor "Kite Shield"
#awe 1
#nametype 104
#end