[OT] poll on inappropriate behavior

[Nocturnal]

Okay you're right, I wouldn't really pull steel, that's overreacting. But they teach us in Ninjitsu that someone who is shoving or taunting like that is asking to get hit, and also to give people what they want. So if he's asking so much, hit him - give him what he wants, kick the snot out of him.

I have two options if someone shoves me - most often I just step back a bit (unless there's a wall in which case I stand where I am) and stare 'em in the eye. Sometimes I'll even take a few shoves in the protected area of the chest without moving, when I see it isn't serious, just to show I'm untouchable. That usually confuses them and they leave and don't come back.

But we're supposed to recognize a real situation, which rarely begins in shoving and never in posturing. Since it's so common in streetfighting though, we learn very many techniques that begin from a shove. So if someone shoves me in the street without warning and I'm not sure how "real" it is, I'm trained to break his arm and bring him to the ground immediately. And I'd rather always err on the side of "caution" - that being the side which leaves me in best health - the other guy's big-shot lawyer be damned. I wouldn't really KILL someone over a shove or punch, but I'd be more than willing to wound his arms for him, feed him some asphalt, and maybe prevent him from breeding for a while. All in all, it's probably better for them, teaches them to be more careful.

I don't have a criminal record.

Since I started making this a practice in high school, no bullies picked on me or anyone I knew. They even looked up to me, mixed blessing as that is.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Loser:
Kids these days are dumb and start their fights out with shoving matches, like some lame kind of foreplay to violence.

If a man is shoved, and responds by immediately punching his 'assailant' in the nose/face/jaw, could it be called a sucker-punch?

Kids these days? Kids these days have changed (depending on what you mean by "kids"). When I was a kid (age 7-12), a fight was pretty much "gentlemanly". It was usually a wrestling match and the winner pinned the shoulders of the loser to the ground and the word, uncle, was usually mentioned. After that age, fists became useful and prevalent. Bruised eyes and bloody noses were the norm all the way into high school. After a fight was over, it was usually over for good.

Kids these days? I'd hate to guess. I hear too many horror stories. And the amount of violence in TV, movies, video games, etc., coupled with the environment a lot of kids live in seems to have led to this: if you lose a fight, you plot a way to get even and USUALLY it involves some sort of escalation (if someone hit you with a stick or pole, you bring back a knife; if someone pulled a knife on you, you get hold of a gun). Fights between kids these days can result in permanent damage ranging from teeth and eyes to, well, death.

Now, to men, as you segued. First of all, I don't think a person is less of a man for walking away from a shove. Sounds like a cliche', I know.

But, to analyze it (to death, probably...pardon the pun), situations are very different. The reason for the shove is the essence. Why did it occur? A drunk? In public? At a private party? A friend? A stranger? Is talking a viable alternative?

Well, you had better have been working on all those answers before that shove occurred. When I was in the army, stationed in Asia, I studied martial arts. For the uninitiated, martial arts, in its truest form, is more of a life style than a way to fight. You learn fighting techniques but we spent much more time on awareness, control, diet, and a balance in life. I'd like to think that what I learned in 2 years is partly attributable to me avoiding situations where things turned physical. Recognizing the signs things were "turning bad" early. Yes, I have found myself in situations where I thought a confrontation was going to turn into conflict. Now, don't get me wrong...I don't fancy myself some great fighter. I haven't practiced in over 20 years. But from the day I gained some confidence in how to handle myself in a fight I also gained some insight into what it could result in. I always asked myself (at some point when things looked like they were turning for the worse) if the argument justified someone dying (because that has been my goal for quite some time now...killing anyone I get into a fight with...so I don't have to look over my shoulder day after day when the fight is over). Or dying myself. Every answer has been NO! Again, don't get me wrong...I've only found myself in situations where voices were raised to yelling levels and the usual 4-letter cuss words a major part of the vocabulary 3 or 4 times in 25 years. None of those situations made me answer YES to the question of "is this worth someone dying?". As a result, none of those situations ever got physical. I walked away, or apologized, or said I had done something wrong or SOMETHING. Oh, and in one case, at a poker table, a guy accused me of cheating and threw back his chair and stood behind me daring me to get up (while everyone else sat there and watched)...I just sat there (judging where his crotch was in relatinship to my elbow) and waited to see if he would hit a guys whose back was to him and sitting down. He called me a few more names and finally people at the table got him to sit down. Did I care if I looked to be the coward? Nope. It wasn't worth someone dying (perhaps). Another time, a few years ago, it was a (casual) friend who got drunk as hell and thought I made an inference to him being gay. Again, though he was in my face and had his hand pressed against my chest, circumstances dictated it wasn't worth the possibility of death or a hell of a maiming. I can still remember getting my fingers ready to put through his throat and shifting myself to aim my knee at his croth (and shaking like hell at the thought of what was getting ready to happen).

Yeah, long-winded. Fighting very rarely is worth it. These days, fighting, whether it be teens or adults, can result in a death at the point of the fight or a death later as the loser broods over how to get even. It's tough trying to teach some of this to our 11-year-old...I don't want him to be a "pansy" or become "bully-bait" but I don't want him to get in fights all the time over stupid kid crap either just to be macho. I also don't want to receive a call about him from a coroner.

I didn't vote because there wasn't a choice for me.

[Kamog]

I'm not sure why somebody would start by shoving somebody else. If he wants to fight, why doesn't he start off by swinging his fist? Maybe he just wants to intimidate the other guy by acting tough but doesn't really want to fight.

[Erax]

No, he wants to fight all right, but he has to go through this ritual. There's no explanation.

Me, I was taught not to talk back, not to shove back. Yeah right, like that works.

But this was the 80s, and all the real bullies or wackos got involved with drugs and parted ways from me (one of them, I learned later, went into a mental institution). So all that was left was kids who wanted to play bully - and the first time I faced one one them with that 'OK, let's fight' look they all backed down and never bothered me again.

After that, I never again got into a potential fight situation. And people are always extraordinarily nice to me - my wife says that it's because I look intimidating.

So if someone decides to shove me, either he's extremely self-confident or he's got some backup I don't know about. Since I probably won't know for certain which is which, the rational thing to do would be to not fight back. But I can't say for certain that I would act rationally in such a situation.

[Loser]

If that's you on the left, I can understand why she thinks you look intimidating.

[Instar]

I am a pretty big guy (6 3 and over 250 pounds, and I just started back up weightlifting at the gym), and I can look intimidating enough.
I've always wondered how I would hold up in a fight, in the past as a school kid I was attacked once or twice, both times I didn't really fight back.
I'm not looking for a fight, but I hope that if need be I can defend myself adequately.

[gregebowman]

I think I've been in one fight in my entire life, and that was during the 8th grade. IIRC, it came out pretty much a draw. That was over 25 years ago. I know it happens, I see it in the news all the time here in Florida, but why after the first punch or harsh words come out, does some idiot go to his vehicle and bring in a gun into what would have been a few years ago just a fist fight? Nowadays, just throw lead instead of fists? I don't understand.

[Kamog]

I wouldn't want to fight a big guy...
Big guys have a major advantage in a fight. They have longer reach with their arms and legs, are usually stronger than smaller guys, and are less hurt when they take a hit.

[Cipher7071]

Well, I'm from Gryphin's generation, and when I was still young enough to seem a likely target for youthful posturing and aggression, a sucker punch was when someone came up and nailed you one without warning or provocation, or blindsided you. There was always a difference between a shove that said "You're a jerk," and one that said "F-off and die." The response depended on the circumstances, and whether there was any history of "bad blood" between them.

[Starhawk]

Okay if it's not worth fighting over FIGHT ANYWAY because I once tried to turn away from a fight and nearly got my neck broken I couldn't walk for two days it hurt so bad.

Okay a sucker punch is if you start the fight by attacking the other guy from behind or from broadside while he's buisy or something.
A perfect example is a friend of mine said he was talking to this one guy's girlfriend and the guy came up and slammed a fist into his back because he thought he was trying to hit on his girl. That is a sucker punch.


And this might just be me but if you get within 18 inches of me and you are looking threatening I'm gonna take you down before you can attack me because if you are within 18 inches and you are looking threatening you can attack before I can react properly. Never let the other guy land a strike first, if you know you can block it or deflect it go ahead and let him throw the first attack so you have the "I was only defending myself" excuse but if you know he can beat you in a square fight and he is coming at you like he is about to start one....take him down first.