newby's guide to ship and fleet strategy - Page 3

PsychoTechFreak · #21 February 4th, 2002, 01:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
.... When the AI determines that the primary strategy is no longer a good idea to use, it will change to the secondary movement strategy. I have no clue as to when or why the AI decides to change to the secondary movement strategy.

That is what I want to know also, since I have seen many AIs which use
1. Don't get Hurt
2. Ram

Nice idea, but does it work the same way as a human would decide when he has no chance not to get hurt any more ?

Saxon · #22 February 4th, 2002, 01:40 PM

To add a few points about fleet composition and comment on ramming.

I like to have a fleet that can take care of itself. It seems that battles tend to be focus on single ships, so ships are usually either undamaged or destroyed. However, you will get ships left behind that have some damage and which you would prefer to recover. If they have engine damage, they will slow the entire fleet down, unless you leave them behind. I also hate it when you spend five turns getting a fleet into place, then have to fly it back after the first battle due to a lack of supplies.

As such, I always have a repair ship available. I find that this makes my fleets longer Lasting and less likely to get knocked out by scavengers coming to clean up a battered fleet. Some of the smaller hulls, from Light Cruiser up, can carry a reasonable number of repair components and will not be targeted in a fleet of larger ships.

I also tend to build specialist supply ships. I don’t like wasting precious space on solar panels, so I have big supply ships with a lot of room for supplies. These also add range and operating capacity to a fleet. As a side note, I don’t make these the biggest ship hull available, I go for second biggest. That way they fall lower in the targeting priority than the main combat ships.

On both of these, I throw in some point defence and a single weapon which matches the rest of the fleet. This is only to ensure that they are in the heart of the battle and knocking out missiles. I don’t actually expect them to kill anything, but a few extra PDC can make the difference against a missile oriented opponent.

Since these are valuable ships, I don’t ram with them. Another poster was suggesting all non-combat ships should be given ram orders, but I disagree. I can see putting a colony ship on ramming, as it might get jumped in open space and is finished no matter what, but the ships I am describing don’t go anywhere without a fleet.

Now, I have a question. Some folks like huge numbers of Light Cruisers, as they have a defensive bonus due to size. They say that you shouldn’t worry about building bigger ships. Others say that size is everything (no, the size of the ship) and that you should go as big as possible, especially for heavy mounts. I tend to follow the second argument, but would be interested in what other think should go into their fleets.

Gryphin · #23 February 4th, 2002, 09:23 PM

Ship Size:
I stay 2 hull sizes behind the AI. Experience has shown me 3 Frigates will out fight 2 AI Light Crusiers in Tactical Combat. When not needed in a fleet, they make good blockade ships and scouts.
I’ll do the cost analysis tonight. There may be diminishing returns depending on your play style.

Cargo Ships:
If the AI focuses on the largest hull, then one strategy may be to create cargo ships with as many containers as possible to draw fire. When available add ECM, Shields, Armor, and Point Defense Cannons should be added.
I have not tried this. It may be necessary to build it on a Non Cargo Ship hull if the AI is programmed to go after transports Last. The other advantage of this would be having the transports available as troop ships, fighter transports, and population mover when not used as a decoy. Still, I would not want to be the crew of that ship. < bemused grin >

[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

PvK · #24 February 4th, 2002, 11:09 PM

Why couldn't the leader move? Whenever I've seen the leader crippled, the fleet broke formation because of it. Or was this some sort of traffic jam problem?

Breaking formation is often good, although I've seen some good results from some formations, too.

PvK

quote:
Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I have lost whole fleets of 30 ships because I forgot to make sure the fleet breaks formation when it meets anything.

If the leader cannot move then the fleet does not move.

Your fleet dies.

so make sure you break formation, even if it is because the fleet needs to stop for some coffee.

PvK · #25 February 4th, 2002, 11:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gryphin:
Ship Size:
I stay 2 hull sizes behind the AI. Experience has shown me 3 Frigates will out fight 2 AI Light Crusiers in Tactical Combat. When not needed in a fleet, they make good blockade ships and scouts.
I’ll do the cost analysis tonight. There may be diminishing returns depending on your play style.

Versus the AI using tactical combat, an experienced player generally has a steep advantage. In unmodded SEIV, usually two LC warships will have an advantage over three FF's. But human vs. AI in tactical combat is generally a larger advantage. Equipment matters too, of course.

quote:

Cargo Ships:
If the AI focuses on the largest hull, then one strategy may be to create cargo ships with as many containers as possible to draw fire. When available add ECM, Shields, Armor, and Point Defense Cannons should be added.
I have not tried this. It may be necessary to build it on a Non Cargo Ship hull if the AI is programmed to go after transports Last. The other advantage of this would be having the transports available as troop ships, fighter transports, and population mover when not used as a decoy. Still, I would not want to be the crew of that ship. < bemused grin >
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Different AI's have different targetting priorities, especially with player-modded AI's. Building a defensive ship to soak up attacks can work unless the AI uses a different strategy (and "Largest" vs. "Most Powerful" will make a difference for the cargo ship versus a ship with fancy defenses). If you've got to this level of play, I'd recommend going to PBW with human opponents, though, and then you'll only be able to fool an observant player briefly with dedicated decoy ships. However a mix of ships with some close-range weapons and a lot of defenses set to attack at Optimal range, with ships with less defenses and more long-range firepower set to Maximum range, can be an effective mix.

PvK

Wardad · #26 February 4th, 2002, 11:46 PM

For unmodded SEIV, I like the Battle Cruisers. There the heaviest you can get and still have speed (six engines).

I usually use LCs. for support ships (fuel and repair). The LCs are unarmed and run for the corner during strategic combat (break formation)and are usually unharmed. The LCs are cost effective, one life support and one crew quarter. Later in the game I may use a BC with Master Computer.

I use different formations for strategic combat.
The V seems to work well for beam ships by allowing them to surround the enemy. The turbine is a good cluster strategy. I usually target: Nearest, Has weapons, Most Damaged or Fastest.
And I usually carry Engine damage and Shield depleters weapons.

I have not tried the Break Formation strategy yet. Does it only make a difference in tactical combat? To keep the game rolling and challenging I just play strategic combat.

The latest 1.49 Version seems to handle capturing planets a lot better. I think it is a coding improvement.

Fyron · #27 February 5th, 2002, 12:13 AM

Wardad:

Breaking formation works best in strategic combat. It eliminates the possibility for ships to fly out of firing range just to stay in formation. By breaking formation, all of your ships will get as close as possible (given thier movement strategy), giving you more shots per turn. This increases your chance to win. All else being equal, the fleet that stays in formation has a much greater chance of losing than the fleet that breaks formation.

tesco samoa · #28 February 5th, 2002, 12:42 AM

Ship Size:
I stay 2 hull sizes behind the AI. Experience has shown me 3 Frigates will out fight 2 AI Light Crusiers in Tactical Combat. When not needed in a fleet, they make good blockade ships and scouts.
I�ll do the cost analysis tonight. There may be diminishing returns depending on your play style.

Sounds good.

I personally like to stay even or ahead of computer ai's Since if you get used to being behind them in research and building then your chewed when it comes to pbem games

Gryphin · #29 February 5th, 2002, 01:55 AM

I sould modfy what I said:
I stay behind in Hull size, I always go for a lead in Reasearch.
WarDad is correct as well. When the AI gets to DN I go to Battle Crusier.

tesco samoa · #30 February 5th, 2002, 03:15 AM

BC's are good for scout fleets and for support ships.

Scout fleet consists of 1 scanner ship/pd ship
2 mine sweepers
1 repair/pd ship
4 pd ships
12 df ships

Built for speed and to hunt unarmed ships or damaged ships, destroy undefended planets and scout

But were talking 4th rate of the line ships

I usually have 4 of these puppies supporting a mid size fleet of 50 ships.

And 2 of the mid size fleets support a large fleet of 100 + ships

So your talking 11 fleets to take control of an area.