CBM MA Races Rankings - Voted by the community!

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

FYI, W9 SVs and Longdead Horsemen move a lot farther than 8 squares per turn. Also FYI, units don't use ranged weapons when they're in melee.

Riderless spiders also have their web attack in melee. The web spitting is just a bonus. It's the melee web that is the killer, as you very well (should) know. Vestals, just like everything else, are useless when webbed. That is why spiders are so excellent against anything hitting hard; the enemy charges in, killing the spider rider. The spider then webs the attacker, and it is game over for the attacker.

On turn 5 you may very well have 20+ vestals with 30+ longdead horsemen. I'll have 50+ brown spiders against them (and if I forgoe recuiting mages, lots more spiders instead). You'll have to kill them twice, and first time you kill them they start to web you in melee. Enjoy your defenseless vestals.

Btw. Since when has ranged damage had to go through defenses? Shield parry is the only thing affecting wether a missile hits or not. Assuming you have three vestals per square, the rolls to compared (assuming fire darts vs vestals) are DRN + 6 + 2 vs 2 + DRN + 8. That is a 30% chance to hit a vestal in the square. One hit = one death. There are lots of fire darts flying even from one caster. Sure, they might miss the squre, but when the range is short that is not an issue (even if the darts deviate, they won't deviate that far).

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

Riderless spiders also have their web attack in melee. The web spitting is just a bonus. It's the melee web that is the killer, as you very well (should) know. Vestals, just like everything else, are useless when webbed. That is why spiders are so excellent against anything hitting hard; the enemy charges in, killing the spider rider. The spider then webs the attacker, and it is game over for the attacker.

On turn 5 you may very well have 20+ vestals with 30+ longdead horsemen. I'll have 50+ brown spiders against them (and if I forgoe recuiting mages, lots more spiders instead). You'll have to kill them twice, and first time you kill them they start to web you in melee. Enjoy your defenseless vestals.

Btw. Since when has ranged damage had to go through defenses? Shield parry is the only thing affecting wether a missile hits or not. Assuming you have three vestals per square, the rolls to compared (assuming fire darts vs vestals) are DRN + 6 + 2 vs 2 + DRN + 8. That is a 30% chance to hit a vestal in the square. One hit = one death. There are lots of fire darts flying even from one caster. Sure, they might miss the squre, but when the range is short that is not an issue (even if the darts deviate, they won't deviate that far).

Hmm.. i was misremembering the manual. For some reason I thought defense got factored into that.

You still have to blow through twist fate, and I'm really not convinced 1 hit = 1 kill after the twist fate goes down. Fire darts doesn't do much damage.

Also, lets be realistic, how much do brown spiders cost? And its not like you know Ermor is going to be coming for you turn 1 either, so you've been doing whatever you were going to be doing for expansion. Assuming players are precognostic is a little much.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

You still have to blow through twist fate, and I'm really not convinced 1 hit = 1 kill after the twist fate goes down. Fire darts doesn't do much damage.

Fire darts deal more damage than Vestals have health. Of course luck may see the Vestal survive the hit, but most of the time one hit = death.

Also, lets be realistic, how much do brown spiders cost? And its not like you know Ermor is going to be coming for you turn 1 either, so you've been doing whatever you were going to be doing for expansion. Assuming players are precognostic is a little much.

Spider riders cost 30 gold and 4 resources a piece. I'll be churning out 10 per turn if I am unaware of somebody intending to attack me (as that leaves me enough money to recruit a mage too *and* save some money for the second castle which I'll start building as soon as possible), because 10 plus an indy commander is an expansion party (and when necessary to take tougher indies, I combine two or three such parties). On turn 5 I'll have 50 spiders, and if I figured out on turn 4 you'll attack me, I'll have way more. No need to be psychic here, just basic bread and butter for Machaka.

Machaka is very strong in early game, and one of the strongest, if not *the* strongest, in midgame, but they totally suck in end game.

[BigDaddy]

sorry.

[Festin]

Emerald guards? Never saw them used, probably because they have mapmove 1.
Assasins are a very niche unit, rarely used.
And I wonder how effective Seraphs can be in endgame in light of clam nerf. Probably if you cast Arcane Nexus, but I do not see how they can be fielded in numbers even remotely comparable to Tartarians otherwise.

[BigDaddy]

squirrellord: I would just hire the low resource spiders against undead (if I was going to hire spiders), so, if the armies were comprable production, you'd have a couple ranks, but, really, hoplites and jav warriors are probably a better choice along with a couple priests.

Festin: I've used that setup to efficiently take indies. Sure the MM sucks but the unit has 16 defense skill and shield and makes an excellent wall. Keep the velites from dying so fast, which ultimately seems to get me a longer overall MM. They'll stop a cavalry charge, it isn't healthy for them, but they'll do it... I ussually let some velites die to the cavalry, and then put the guards in. And if you mix them in with standards 10/1 or 5/1, they won't break unless they take catastrophic losses. Sometimes you'll wonder why you sent them in configured like that...

[Festin]

It's fine, but I think the same thing can be accomplished with just principes. They throw javelins like velites, they are heavy infantry only slightly worse than emerald guards, and they have mapmove 2. Add standards, and you have one of the nicest generic infantry armies in the game.

[BigDaddy]

Wait, you use Velites AND Principes right? I pretty much insist that the cheapness of Velites makes them awesome. They're my most hired early legionaire unit. Late I drop some standards in all my provinces to beef up the defenses.

It might be that you are right though, I ussually pick the emerald guard because I've had good luck with their durability, especially getting them to hirer experience levels without wounds.

Assassins have a nice precision and are nice to carry x-bows. Adding a few to a force is similar to sending a mage.

If you're willing to make a castle to hire assassins, then it frees up some time to research construction.

[Festin]

No, I only use principes. Velites tend to die a lot, and principes can do everything velites can do, but better. I just don't like light infantry that takes losses and has to be resupplied with fresh troops every other turn.

[BigDaddy]

You should put the Velites back farther... sure, A few will still die, but you can make a hoarde of em. If lots are dying you don't have enough principes to hold the line.

They're your archers, only Javs do better damage. If you'd used part velites, your army would be considerably larger, and its jav damage would go way up. Resulting in overall greater endurance.