Unknown magic sites in starting provinces?

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
Climbing further out on the limb with each answer, are you NTJedi? You cannot ascribe the property of being known or unknown to a nonexistent object.

NTJedi is an intangible object... but does exist as it is seen by the readers here. And your correct pete this question was way way out.

[ March 18, 2004, 22:33: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
NTJedi is an intangible object... but does exist as it is seen by the readers here. And your correct pete this question was way way out.

Intangibility is not equivalent to nonexistence. An intangible object can still exist and be referenced. A non-existent object will crash anything that tries to reference it.

[NTJedi]

[quote]Originally posted by Norfleet:

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Intangibility is not equivalent to nonexistence. An intangible object can still exist and be referenced. A non-existent object will crash anything that tries to reference it.

I was responding to Pete's comment and I agree that was way way OUT.

----returning back to the topic-------

These magic sites... do you know they exist?(asking you not the game)

You do not KNOW they exist until the event occurs. Once the event occurs they are known magic sites.
The iron and copper were there just not found... these deposits were unknown.

Before = Unknown magic sites

[ March 18, 2004, 22:45: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
These magic sites... do you know they exist?(asking you not the game)

This is like asking if I know the world is flat. It's an absurd question, because the fact in question is false. I know that the world is NOT flat, just as I know that the magic site in question does NOT exist!

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NTJedi:
These magic sites... do you know they exist?(asking you not the game)

This is like asking if I know the world is flat. It's an absurd question, because the fact in question is false. I know that the world is NOT flat, just as I know that the magic site in question does NOT exist!

---

it doesn't exist YET because it is unknown... once the deposits are found the magic sites become known.

If something has become known... then before it was unknown. The events make the magic sites known.

example:
there are likely unknown substances or metals which will be eventually be created... because they don't exist now makes them unknown.

[ March 18, 2004, 22:53: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by NTJedi:

If something has become known... then before it was unknown.

Only during the time it was in existence was it unknown. The period of time in which it was unknown cannot be longer than the time it has been in existence.

Both "known" and "unknown" imply existence as they describe a property of an existing object.

If a mammoth spontaneously arises one day as the result of the unlikely collision of billions of truly unusual particles, the mammoth was neither known nor unknown to anybody on the day before, rather, said mammoth did not exist.

The same goes for magic sites generated by event.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by NTJedi:

example:
there are likely unknown substances or metals which will be eventually be created... because they don't exist now makes them unknown.

No, it does not make them anything. If they exist now, they are unknown now. If they do not exist now, but will be created sometime in the future, they are neither known nor unknown now as they do not exist at this point in time.

[NTJedi]

Peter the magic sites are unknown at this time... the events make them become known. They exist as iron and copper deposits... these deposits don't just pop out of thin air.

It would be nice if gold deposits just popped in my backyard one day. Unfortunately if the gold is there then it's been there for awhile... as unknown.

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
Only during the time it was in existence was it unknown. The period of time in which it was unknown cannot be longer than the time it has been in existence.

That is wrong... there are many unknown substances which have not been created yet. Also look at living creatures/plants which no longer exist yet are known about and so many we still have yet to find.

[ March 18, 2004, 23:27: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Peter the magic sites are unknown at this time... the events make them become known. They exist as iron and copper deposits... these deposits don't just pop out of thin air.

I don't think you are using the definition of unknown properly. Calling the sites "unknown" is likely to do nothing more than confuse people into thinking they can cause them to be found some way other than pure random chance.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Peter the magic sites are unknown at this time... the events make them become known. They exist as iron and copper deposits... these deposits don't just pop out of thin air.

It would be nice if gold deposits just popped in my backyard one day. Unfortunately if the gold is there then it's been there for awhile... as unknown.

The analogy does not apply to Dom because in the case of the game, until the event occurs the deposits very much DO NOT EXIST. They do, in fact, pop out of thin air, at least insofar as the game is concerned. Arguing, as you are, from the perspective of realism is irrelevant as the game simply does NOT work as you are trying to make it seem. Which, as Graeme points out, may confuse new players as to the underlying mechanics.