KOTH: Attack of the Clones

[Stone Mill]

As Fyron alluded (I think), choosing a warlike race also just makes plain sense in KOTH.

I also agree with his point about the Talisman being unrealistic in KOTH. You will never get to it. And the research you spend on it will rear it's ugly head when you are severely behind in all the fundamentals.

20/20/berserker is now the new fundamental start point. I have been playing SEIV from inception, I have listened to the good players, and watched what they do, and I am convinced.

Don't say that you haven't been warned...

[geoschmo]

Many of your points are valid Stone Mill. I don't suggest that KOTH is the only way to play. And do not suggest a player good at KOTH would be good at all types of SEIV games. That variety is one fo the beauties of SEIV.

Even if every player has the 20/20/berzerker traits you suggest, that still leaves 13 characteristics to tweak and all the advanced traits to choose from in an effort to gain an advantage over your opponent. There is still lots of room for variety in empire setup. Koth is a min/maxers dream.

And then there is the luck of the starting positions to account for. And in-game execution of strategy.

I think a good indication of the popularity of the format is the players that keep coming back for more even though they keep getting spanked.

Finding the formula for victory is the challange. Your suggestions are just one ingredient. An important one, but still just a part of the overall picture.

Personally though I would love the challange of a default or same empire setup. I think more than a few people would give it a try if it were suggested. Kind of like a stock car race. Then you'd really know it was all the skill of the driver.

Geoschmo

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

I think a good indication of the popularity of the format is the players that keep coming back for more even though they keep getting spanked.

Kind of like me.

But I don't mind losing. Each time I lose I come back as a better player. I set up my empire better, I begin the game faster and with better research options. I build my facilities in a better fashion in order to reap the benifits quicker. Each time I lose I will continue to tweak my stratagy until I can beat anyone as long as I play the game right. I didn't pick 20/20/berzerk this game but I might give it a try next game. We'll see how this game I'm in fairs and if this stratagy and settings worked.
But to me it's not about whether you win or lose. It's about whether you enjoy the game and learn from it no matter what.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Stone Mill:

20/20/berserker is now the new fundamental start point.

I suspect that 20/20/Merchant might do ok, too. Or 20/20/Warrior.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Personally though I would love the challange of a default or same empire setup. I think more than a few people would give it a try if it were suggested. Kind of like a stock car race. Then you'd really know it was all the skill of the driver.

Geoschmo

I've thought about this too. It would be interesting. I even thought about the idea of each player making the other guys empire. With a few rules. (ie no trait less than 80% and you have to use 2000 points or something like that) How bad an empire can you make and then what can do with it.

[Preacherman]

hmmm, perhaps we'd best not speak here, but we find producing and expanding fast much more important then 20/20 attack/defense. all our games we played we never had 20/20, the most we ever got was 14/14 or so but even with 10/10 or less we could live, depends on how our points are distributed.
ok berserk is and was the only choice for a koth game.

so be fast and win would be our solution, perhaps the food contamination strategic could win games, one of our opponents almost did the job, but he lacked the planets to stop us long enough.

[ January 31, 2003, 18:27: Message edited by: Preacherman ]

[Dralasite]

That would seem unusual. I would estimate that most people don't want to be told how to create their race. And they don't necesarily want to broadcast their stats. And this would be a pain in the butt to enforce.

I was unclear. I meant that you could find some people (Geoschmoe and others have already indicated their interest) to agree to a game where the players agree to not min max attack and defense or pick bezerk.

I just figured if people could agree to play a devnull match, they could agree to whatever they wanted.

[Stone Mill]

Valid comments, fellas.

I love to bump up research, production and maintenance. When your ships perform like Gomer Pyle academy graduates, you will see the need to differ the points to attack/defense. What good is producing lots of ships and having more planets when they will all be fodder?

There is some flexibility, true; but not a whole lot of points left after you pay for 20/20. I guess that's why KOTH empires are starting to look like clones. Not that this is bad, I get your point. I also like the idea of the "stock" starting point.

True; You may choose warrior, or slightly reduce your attack/defense, but don't be surprised how much each one of those precious points counts... why?

Beyond making the empire, the combat enhancement stacking strategy involves going right for the techs that will snowball the combat percentages. If you don't do the same, you will get left behind before you know it.

Go ahead and try to research intel or minerals II, before you know it, ships with ECM and sensors will make your fleets look like target dummies.

I guess I'm just surprised how drastic this is; I kidded myself into thinking it really did not matter. My strat was based around ecomomy (expanding, colonizing, and choking off the enemy, and playing defensively until I was ready to attack en masse) which still works well, but not without the "fundamentals," souped up combat stats.

1FSTCAT and Rollo handed me my rear end on a platter (kills were like 50-1, their favor). A painful lesson indeed. I'm a slow learner sometimes, and the combat results bugged the heck out of me. They obviously caught on to this strat and are just too excellent to not press their advantage.

[geoschmo]

Well yes, playing a defensive game and being deficent in agg/def is a bad combination. You can get by with a lower agg/def and a higher rate of construction, but you have to press the attack early and often to get the full use of your advantage. Swarm the opponent before he has a chance to get a lot of colonies and ships, and before he can get the ECM and sensors that in addition to his racial bonus make the fights really lopsoded. Otherwise you are just waiting till they get better ships and can...well I don't have to tell you, you've seen it yourself.

Geoschmo

[spoon]

Another thing you can try is lowering your Def to 75, and just focus on attack skill. With those extra points, you might be able to eek out an advantage in another area...