Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion

[Rollo]

Is that as confusing as I think it is?

Well Quikngruvn, at least it is a pretty confusing train of thought , because you could build these PD-Sweeper-Cruisers no matter how high the mine limit is anyways. I understand what you are saying, but a good (or even perfect fleet) should bring enough PD to cancel all seekers anyways. You are looking at the high mine limit as a reminder to include enough PDC in your fleet and I'll give you that. However, try to look at this the other way around. Let's say a decent fleet needs at least a total of 20-30 PDC. Let's also say you have PD level between 3 and 5. So that fleet will just plow through all mines field of size 60 (or 150, depending on the numbers you choose). Now, is that as confusing as I think it is?

Secondly keep in mind that bringing an (over-)abundance of PDC does not do you any good against fighters/drones/sats. PDC can only target seekers and sweep mines. To hit the other units you need the anti fighter missile (AFM) which doesn't sweep mines.

I almost forgot... mines also tend to suck up a lot of radioactives, which can cause a problem if you're not careful...

Yes, mines can be rather expensive. You can research higher levels of warheads and they will get cheaper.

Deathstalker, dunno, I kinda like it that you don't have to research mines to be able to sweep them, but your idea does have merit (and I do like crossover techs ). Are you saying that you would only need mines 1 to get the Adv. PDC V? Or would you need level 3? Although, there is a little nasty technical detail about adding more Versions of PDC with higher tech requirements. This can cause the design minister to place the Adv. PDC in the design instead of the AFM. Currently the AI adds PDC for 'mine sweeping' and AFM for 'point-defense' and that is good that way. (note: for abilities that have no value like armor and point-defense the minister chooses the component with the highest number of tech level requirements that is furthest down the component file). <- how's that for a running on sentence?
I am pretty sure I could counteract this by adding redundant tech requirements to the AFM, but it might end up a sticky mess and I am not sure that's worth it.

One other thing I just noticed with mines. Mine Layer components can lay 5 mines per turn for all three levels. How about lowering that to 3/4/5? So you would get an increase in your mine laying ability.

Hmm, the more I think about it the more I like it. Mine fields with a high limit that are easy to deploy, albeit costly, and easy to sweep. Opinions?

Rollo

edit: some typos

[ August 03, 2002, 01:09: Message edited by: Rollo ]

[Deathstalker]

"Deathstalker, dunno, I kinda like it that you don't have to research mines to be able to sweep them, but your idea does have merit (and I do like crossover techs ). Are you saying that you would only need mines 1 to get the Adv. PDC V? Or would you need level 3?"

My 'vision"

PDC I: 1 mine sweep
PDC II: 1 mine
PDC III: 1 mine
PDC IV : 1 mine
PDC V: 1 mine
PDC II+ Mines I: AdvancedPDC: 2mine sweep
PDC III+ MinesII: APDC: 3 mines
PDC IV+ Mines III: APDC: 4 mines
PDC V+ Mines III: APDC: 5 mines (??Too powerful??)

So even if you had PDC I and Mines III the best you could sweep is ONE mine per PDC cannon till you research more. This is my suggestion, comments?? (or revisions??)

Edit: And as far as AI use if you keep the APDC right below the PDC in order (in the components.txt) the AI should choose the best one researched (just like engines).

[ August 03, 2002, 03:12: Message edited by: Deathstalker ]

[Rollo]

Deathstalker, sorry, but that idea doesn't grow on me for several reasons. Most importantly, as I mentioned earlier on this thread, because the way minesweeping works in DNM is kind of a taboo for me to change in order to preserve the spirit of the mod. That may seem like a lame excuse, but it is important for me.

And as far as AI use if you keep the APDC right below the PDC in order (in the components.txt) the AI should choose the best one researched (just like engines).

Engines and point defense are treated differently by the AI, because the 'Standard Ship Movement' has a value and 'point-defense' does not. I am not concerned with PDC vs. APDC, but with conflicts between APDC and Anti-Fighter-Missiles (which will occur). Having three different Versions of point-defense is kind of messy. For the extra work involved, I see only little 'bang for the buck'. (yeah, I am lazy )

Do keep suggesting stuff, though (that applies to everybody, of course). I am not against adding new stuff at all. Just changing something that was already modded in the original DNM, I am a little bit reluctant with. For example, we are still looking for some nifty, but not too powerful racial crossover techs for psychic/crystalline (and maybe temporal/religious).
Any ideas, anyone?

Rollo

[Trajan]

Rollo,

I want to thank you for constantly improving DevNull. It is my mod of choice!

Cheers!
Trajan

[Rollo]

Thank you for your kind words, Trajan . It is good to know that people are enjoying the mod. The new Version is still in the works. Actually it could be ready soon, but I'd like to include at least two or three new AIs before posting (and that takes some time). There will be overhauls of the racial combo techs and I want some AIs that actually use them. Looks more likely now that it is going to be 1.70 (not compatible with earlier Versions) rather than 1.64.

Btw, I have checked out the Admiral's system mod. Wow, those giant and titanic worlds are really huge. It's like placing quasi-Ringworlds and Sphereworlds over the map. That puts a little bit too much emphasis on the luck factor IMHO. As said before, I like the idea of adding bigger planets, so I'll include a much toned done variant. I was thinking of one extra planet size with 30/6 facility slots. Nothing spectacular. I was also thinking of doubling the cargo space of domed colonies (that should help the AI). Opinions?

Rollo

[philjat]

Hi
i am a newbie and certainly don't see the good path to the space true, but i don'tfind the place to donwload the devnull mod gold
So my question is : where is the url to dl this mod ?
thanks

[oleg]

Go to

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=50;t=000002

scroll down a little and you will find it.

[Rollo]

I have made a sig with the link to DNM 1.63 now

testing...

[philjat]

ok, it's super

thanks all

now i going to play with and try to go back under the sun

[oleg]

Rollo, I think quite a few people won't mind if you put an upgrade Version as well - it does take some time to load 3M if one has just a modem connection !