Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN - Page 3

Lord_Bob · #21 November 6th, 2007, 04:58 PM

Lanka is a blood nation. They can also reanimate undead. While it is true that you need a 90 gold mage on the scene to keep your army of dead operational, it is also true that the 90 gold mage is bloodhunting in that province and has to be there anyway. He needs bodyguards. A bunch of Londead or other summons should do just fine. This won't stop a 200 gold raiding force, it will destroy it. Utterly, while laughing hysterically. Since bloodhunting is required for Lanka to win, Lanka has large amounts of such "PD-Enhanced" provinces quickly.

Lord_Bob · #22 November 6th, 2007, 05:02 PM

I'm sorry, you can only attack a province you are adjacent to. So if by "swiftly", you mean two turns, yes. And the high level astral mage leaves the next turn, using a "move into friendly territory" move. Or he can pop a Returning if for some bizarre reason I decide to do that. Of course, the bandar and teleport mages onto him..... which won't stop the returning though... Now we are getting quite expensive, eh? All for a little 200 gold raiding force.

Evilhomer · #23 November 6th, 2007, 05:07 PM

For some reason you only seem to read and respond to some of the points made in respons to you. First of all as many has pointed out pd is not used very much in mp games among good players, simply because a mobile army is a better buy in most cases.

Also if you checked out some of the nations that has scored several wins (like EA caelum) you will find that those nations has abysmal pd as well and still managed to win. Finally what QM said is very true - there is just to few games played in comparison to the number of available nations in the game to start drawing some statistical conclusions at this point. The monkey nations has some shortcomings (where low pd is just one), but the nations is not as bad as you seem to think.

Lord_Bob · #24 November 6th, 2007, 05:11 PM

Lanka has maintenance free demons and undead as PD. Led around by their bloodhunting priests. Attempts to raid them with "200 gold force" stops when you hit the blood hunters and they kill you instantly.

thejeff · #25 November 6th, 2007, 05:17 PM

Again, nonsense. Your scouts tell you where the bloodhunters are, if you don't just guess by raiding the farms and other high income provinces where no one blood hunts.

Then you send real forces after the bloodhunters. Raiding weak provinces is fine, but trashing your enemies blood income is a real prize.

VedalkenBear · #26 November 6th, 2007, 05:23 PM

To be short, blunt, and to the point:

You have no basis at all for extrapolating from the given data an unequivocal statement on _anything_. Having just had a test where I was required to calculate confidence intervals for several questions, I can tell you that you have no idea how unsupported your claim is.

Your statement is not supported by the evidence. If you made a statement like, "The Ape nations have not won YET because people haven't figured out a way to compensate for their PD being unable to stop raiders," you might get a bit more agreement.

You are making an obviously flawed argument from the subject line on. I would suggest a basic course in statistics before you try to make this or similar claims.

Lord_Bob · #27 November 6th, 2007, 05:24 PM

PD serves one purpose, and one purpose alone. It stops you from having to chase mageless, indie, mini-armies all around your empire. That is the only purpose for which it exists. The giants and Man's PD is QUITE CAPABLE of defeating a 200 gold raiding force at 20.

This is what is going to happen to the "awesome" 17 Indie Archer/1 Indie Commander raiding force against the "lousy" Giant PD. The Giants 2 commanders and 10 Giant Militia are going to take arrow fire and then reach the archers. They are then going to swing. At which point many, many archers will die. The Indie Archers with a morale of 7(-1 Dominion Penalty) are then probably going to route. At that point the giants will run them down and kill every one of them. The Commander will probably get away.

The Giant PD really sucks.

Oh yeah, EA Caleum is going to be PAWNED! By them 17 Indie Archers. They got some fliers, and you see, them fliers going to "stupidly charge" them archers and route them before the archers fire one shot. Them EA Caleum PD is OWNED by them Archers. COMPLETE PAWNAGE!

There is bad, and then there is hidiously ridiclious.

I can't even believe people are talking about Man PD. I have used 65 Man PD, backed by research mages and some longbowman and castle guards to repel 2 waves of 400 man armies backed by multiple mages from EA Ermor in the multiplayer game where I took over a messed up MA Man on some turn. MA Man PD is hidiously more powerfull than Ape PD. It is just plain mighty after 20.

Hadrian_II · #28 November 6th, 2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Sandman said:
In my experience playing a MP game with Bandar Log, the main points of pain for Bandar Log are:

2. Crappy priests. Combined with the above, it blunts the recruitable-everywhere-sacred edge.

I think this only slows down early expansion, as the 9hp unarmored priests just like to be shot with an arrow and rout everything. But later you can either recruit siddhas for your bigger armies or just recruit enough indy priests to bless your armies.

Quote:

Sandman said:3. Crappy searching. Bandar Log is a real gem-hog, with its summons and gem-heavy battlemagic. But the Rishis only have map-move 1, and remote searching spells may accentuate your gem shortage if you're unlucky.

Quote:

Sandman said:
This is a problem, especially with their lack of magic paths . But i would say that you get more gems for remote site searching than it costs, so it should not shorten your gem supply.

Quote:

Lord_Bob said:
Attempts to raid them with "200 gold force"

Why dont you just get your own 200 gold force out if indys instead of buying 20 PD for the same price, so you have at least a 50% chance in winning.

lch · #29 November 6th, 2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Lord_Bob said:
Attempts to raid them with "200 gold force" stops when you hit the blood hunters and they kill you instantly.

Let's try again, and then I think I'll just stop responding to this: PD can prevent loss of your provinces by random, unforeseen attacks. What you fail to notice, maybe by playing too much against the AI where there is no possibility to engage in diplomacy, is that an unforeseen attack on a province means a declaration of war. You opponent will then react to that attack and kill you.

I wouldn't think that somebody randomly attacks another just because it'd be a steal because the PD is bad. You can't "shop around" for the easiest provinces to conquer because they're not that well defended. "Oops, sorry, but your defense in there was just so low, I *had* to take that province." No, attacking another player and engaging in war is a rational decision based on a number of things, but if somebody decides to wage war against you, he certainly won't be stopped because your PD is a little stronger or weaker.

Lord_Bob · #30 November 6th, 2007, 05:30 PM

So Lanka can be "freely raided" except for the multiple road blocks that completely destroy such raids. These roadblocks cost nothing as they consist of priest that MUST be there, and maintenance free undead. Or maybe demons for some reason.

Multiple, Lanka Player Placed, Free, raid blockers seems to be quite a difference between them and the other Ape Nations. Also, since blood summons cost no gold to maintain, "Garrisoning" is a perfectly viable plan. And, of course, Lanka is a blood nation and the others aren't.