Forthcoming patch notes

[NTJedi]

WraithLord said:
I'm all in favor of increasing the hard coded turn limit to something in the range [100,200].

I'm also in favor of increasing the turn limit. Ideally this should become an adjustable game setting.

As time passes eventually patches for Dominions_3 will stop, however computers will continue to become more and more powerful. Dominions_3 will live longer for all gamers if the game can continue to adjust to the computers of tomorrow.

[Zeldor]

Tifone:

How many battles go beyond 50 turns? Just a few. So from time to time you'd have a battle that lasts 100 turns. It would be like counting 1 more battle, almost no difference. And those battles that end with turn limit really limit tactcs and screw some pople unfairly.

[Tifone]

To me this is just not a "computers' power" issue... It is a logical issue - that battles that last a long time aren't placed in a limbo out of the world, but it's normal that after a while both defenders and attackers have their reinforcements arrive, and need to reorganize.

For the battle's timing too, 50 seem a lot, and just right. I mean, after 3 turns waiting, the most of the troops need to attack or retreat. That's maybe one turn to reach the enemy and then 44 to bash each other. It doesn't seem so restrictive.

I just would like someone to tell me what can an upper turn limit add to the game experience - actually, I see no advantage. While the things as they are have the advantage are:

-low-systems friendly for no long waits
-logical for the needs of the armies to reorganize
-a balance issue as the troops you have in the proximities of the battle (near provinces) should be able to join the fight after some time.

Really, why do you ask for an upper turn limit?

Even an adjustable issue - I dunno. Wouldn't that create a lot of confusion for the MP games? I mean, having battles ending at 50 turns or at 200 goes for a ground-breaking change in gameplay. Deciding a turn limit for every MP game, while many adjusts it in SP the way they like, could end up being uncomfortable for people used to different battle tactics.

I don't wanna do destructive criticism for that. I would like someone explaining me the point, if there is any. Peace

[Tifone]

Zeldor: why a battle should last more than 50 turns? Because the attacker didn't bring the necessary amount of... let's call it "firepower", to get rid of the defence in that province.
He went deep into enemy territory, where the PD, the paesants keeping the supplies, everything is against him - and he wasn't able in a 50 turns fight to clear the province of the defenders. The battle lasted more than one month. Isn't it obvious that now his soldiers need to retreat to a friendly province (or at least try to) to reorganize, resupply, have reinforcements? Don't the defender after 50 turns have the right to receive the reinforcements coming from the friendly provinces?

Historic realistic example everybody know: WWI. The war of attrition - no faction having at the borders enough soldiers to conquer the enemy territory. The fights didn't last forever till one side won the territory - they lasted months, with the dying soldiers being replaced continuously.

If you tell me that some spells and some situations bring this "turn limit rule" to a bug/exploit level, I can agree that it is unfair. But I think maybe those spells need an adjustement, like it is gonna happen for the MoD phantasms, not the whole turn limit system.

[Omnirizon]

many ppl complain of the VoD turn limit exploit.

I recall once exploiting the turn limit by using tons of fatigue spells (heat from hell, curse of stones, rigor mortis) + LaD to cause both armies to fall asleep until the turn limit hit and I won. The LaD was just there to resurrect my units who died from fatigue, so I could hold out a little longer.

the battle ended with a legions of sleepy Hydras fleeing from three (yes, farking THREE) soulless. It's one of my most memorable battles ever. Even better, I moved in a flying SC to the province that the attacking army was leaving; turn order worked out so that they left, and I captured that province. When they fled due to the turn limit, they all got auto-killed. It wasn't elegant, but it worked.

I don't think what I did was an exploit though, it took planning and execution, the VoD is just cheap ***.

Also on another note, I'd like to see turn order randomization improved. In this particular game, I moved AFTER this person basically every move that we made into each others territory (not from friendly to friendly). In ten such cases of movement, I swear this nation moved before me everytime. It would be nice to see smaller armies, non-stealth, and flying armies get a bonus in the random move order, or something. I don't understand why my flying cyclops can't ever intercept an army of 50 Hydras.

[Zeldor]

Nah, 50 turn really promotes undead, as they don't rout with turn limit. Or paralyzing someone for 30 turns. Or berserk troops. Losing sides get some of that and battle goes on to turn75 because of that and winner routs.

Another thing is mindless commanders vanishing at turn50. That is not funny.

Many battles just deserve to be resolved on battlefield, not by some virtual turn limit that forces whole army to spread into neighbouring provinces.

[Tifone]

Omnirizon - I support you in that.

Zeldor - I don't want to be critic, but we are discussing and you're still not bringing me a reason on why aren't those situations you mentioned to need some kind of adjustement, but the whole turn-limit system Am I wrong? Peace friends

[Zeldor]

Tifone:

I said it -
"Battles should be decided on battlefield. "
You kill the enemy or force him to rout, so you won. But being lucky or just using ways to stale [even if they also require planning] is not how battles should be won.

[Tifone]

mmh... but why not? staling tactics, waiting for 1) your reinforcements to come from the rear lines keeping the enemies at bay or 2) your rear lines to organize better the rearmost defences, are the bread and butter of the military campaigns.
Have you ever played Call of Duty, seen Saving Private Ryan (last battle), seen the movie 300?
If you did you know what I'm talking about Sometimes battles last more than one month because the defenders of one territory, even if doomed to lose on the long time, just doesn't want the enemy to pass through a point immediately and come out with tactics to slow him. Even in real world, without fatiguing magic So why to change this well-implemented feature in the game?

[Omnirizon]

dom3 is a game more about options than realism. that said, i'd ask first what allows for more options: 50 turn limits or 100? or 200? or whatever.

realism is decentered term anyway. does making a game more 'real' actually make it more real?