Aircraft weapons

[DRG]

kevineduguay1 said:
DRG,

I looked at all those other site before and even the text in many of them are the same.
I gave you a site with a different perspective, please read it through.

I DID READ IT!. Why do you think I wasted all that time replying at length to what it was saying. Neither you nor that website clarifies just what "capable of disabling a main battle tank " MEANS or WHICH "main battle tanks" they have disabled at that range. Doesn't that seem odd to you ? What I do know is I had already researched this question LONG before you presented this "different perspective" because I had partially bought in to the notion that this weapons should be capable of more that we credit it in the game but the deeper I dug the more I became convinced it isn't , as Marcello says, "a top secret magic uber round " The 30mm Gau that A-10 carries is the least of your worries if one appears overhead. It's all the other goodies it can carry that are the real threat.


Just because that website has a "different perspective" doesn't make it correct. When you are looking for other information on other subjects and a number of sources agree but one doesn't do you always assume the one that doesn't agree with any others is correct ? Or do you just pick the ones that suit your notion of correct ? I have already spent hours looking for information on this gun. Nothing that website says is very enlightening.

Don

[kevineduguay1]

"DU can be used to engage the enemy at greater distances than tungsten penetrators or high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds because of improved ballistic properties. When they strike a target, tungsten penetrators blunt while DU has a self-sharpening property. DU ammunition routinely provides a 25 percent increase in effective range over traditional kinetic energy rounds."

Off the Global Security site.

[kevineduguay1]

"In the early 1970s, the Air Force developed the GAU-8/A air to surface gun system for the A-10 close air support aircraft. This unique aircraft, designed to counter the massive Soviet/Warsaw Pact armored formations spearheading an attack into NATO's Central Region, was literally designed and built around the GAU-8. This large, heavy, eight-barreled 30-mm cannon was designed to blast through the top armor of even the heaviest enemy tanks. To further exploit the new cannon's tremendous striking power, the Air Force opted to use the depleted uranium U-3/4Ti, a 30mm API round. A comprehensive Environmental Assessment of the GAU-8 ammunition was released on January 18, 1976. The report stated that the proposed action was expected to have no significant environmental impact and that the "biomedical and toxicological hazards of the use of depleted uranium (DU) in this program are practically negligible." The A-10 aircraft was deployed to United States Air Forces in Europe (USAFE) in 1978."

Global Security.

A disabled tank would be one that no longer functions as intended. In game terms that should be immobilized or killed.

[thatguy96]

Still doesn't provide concrete figures on what it can and cannot do. Furthermore, since I'm currently an intern (read: "web monkey") for Globalsecurity.org I can tell you without giving anything away that those pages haven't been updated in years and have generally been made up of direct text from usually rather glowing government or manufacturer assessments, often with few concrete figures to go along with them.

[kevineduguay1]

Then we have a problem of inconsistancy in the game.
In the USMC OOB weapon number 077 30mm Bushmaster has a Sabot Pen of 12. Weapon number 190 the GAU-8 mounted on the A-10 has a HE Pen of 9.
The problem is that BOTH WEAPONS fire the SAME 30mmx173 DU round. Please explain. The Bushmaster only fires about 250 RPM max, while the GAU-8 spews about 3900 RPM max. While both weapons will hurt you, which would hurt more?

[Marek_Tucan]

My bet is that the difference cometh from weapon class and how is it modelled in game. You'll note thet with Mk44 chaingun, the AP ammo is in either AP or Sabot slot (too lazy to check it out right now), meaning it's penetration decreases with range. OTOH GAU-8/A is class 11 aircraft weapon, meaning the round has to be simulated there with HE penetration. Since HE pen doesn't decrease with range, it is not too sensible to let it have it pointblank penetration when it fires at a certain range ingame.

[thatguy96]

kevineduguay1 said:
Then we have a problem of inconsistancy in the game.
In the USMC OOB weapon number 077 30mm Bushmaster has a Sabot Pen of 12. Weapon number 190 the GAU-8 mounted on the A-10 has a HE Pen of 9.
The problem is that BOTH WEAPONS fire the SAME 30mmx173 DU round. Please explain. The Bushmaster only fires about 250 RPM max, while the GAU-8 spews about 3900 RPM max. While both weapons will hurt you, which would hurt more?

Both weapons have the same caliber, both weapons do not fire the same specific round. The weapons were definitely modeled on the normal ammunition loadout for both. The increased sabot number is no doubt based on the fact that the navy has an APFSDS round (Mk 268 Mod 0) for the Mk 44, that isn't used in the GAU-8/A.

[kevineduguay1]

From what I understand the Navy no longer uses a DU round.

The only inovation between the GAU-8 and the Bushmaster is that the Bushmaster has a built in fuse setter for its HE rounds that the GAU-8 could in no way facillitate. The MK44 was featured on the TV show "Future Weapons" and showed how its HE round could be set to pen so much cinder block and then explode basicly depriving your opponent of their cover. So other that the HE round all others are the same.
30mmx173.

[DRG]

kevineduguay1 said:The Bushmaster only fires about 250 RPM max, while the GAU-8 spews about 3900 RPM max. While both weapons will hurt you, which would hurt more?

Well.. how about the Gau-8 with the 27 HE kill as opposed to the Bushmaster with only 11 ?? Strange that you would ignore that little detail. That 16 point difference is the difference between the two weapons ROF and their affect on soft targets. PENETRATION has nothing to do with ROF though we may take that into consideration.

Don

[PlasmaKrab]

I don't have time to check stats right now, but it still shows up that the PGU-14 has a muzzle velocity of 1067m/s fired from the GAU-8, while the MK268 fired by the MK30 autocannon gets a hefty 1385m/s and is APFSDS, i.e. gets much less drag over its course. Same rounds, are you sure?
While I don't have figures for the US rounds yet (heh), I have racked up a figure of 57mm RAH @1000m/60° for the apparently similar German PMC-287 round. I find this figure hard to believe, but do you think Rheinmetall would publish official figures?

69mm @500m is largely believable for the GAU-8, and allows to kill lots of of miscellaneous AFVs and some tanks in a totally improbable Stuka dive.