New Patch? - Page 3

jimbob · #21 May 23rd, 2002, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Most people put no supply components on attack ships, prefering to concentrate thouse on support ships that will stay out of the way during combat. Because of this the ships supply is dependant on the supply capacity of the engines.

It's like changing the "physical laws of the universe"... it will simply force people to change their tactics. If gravity became 10% less strong, we'd adapt.

geoschmo · #22 May 23rd, 2002, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimbob:

quote:
Most people put no supply components on attack ships, prefering to concentrate thouse on support ships that will stay out of the way during combat. Because of this the ships supply is dependant on the supply capacity of the engines.

It's like changing the "physical laws of the universe"... it will simply force people to change their tactics. If gravity became 10% less strong, we'd adapt.

True. The same could be said for those that rely heavily on the Engine depleting weapons though.

Adaptation is a fact of this game that will exsist as long as Malfador continues to put out patches. Really longer than that, as long as people continue to make mods.

Geoschmo

Wardad · #23 May 23rd, 2002, 11:14 PM

I have to agree with Geoschmo. Changing the engine damage will help rebalance the shield issue.

It seems the shields are only good now (v1.67) for warding off boarding parties at wormholes.
The PPB and Shield depleter strength should also be notched down some.

The Crystraline weapons should more powerfull. Most other weapons can blow away both armor and componants faster than the crystal weapons bypass attack.

Maybe we need an Armor Only Weapon??? in a general research catagory.

edit: Grammer good speak I not ummhh?

[ May 23, 2002, 22:23: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Master Belisarius · #24 May 23rd, 2002, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Shields were becomeing a bit out of vouge in the PBW games I have been playing lately. People don't bother because as soon as they put them on the other guy comes in with engine destroyers. Geoschmo

I think most the people (me included) doesn't bother to use shields, mostly because the PPB... and this weapon still was not fixed!

Alpha Kodiak · #25 May 23rd, 2002, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
[QBI think most the people (me included) doesn't bother to use shields, mostly because the PPB... and this weapon still was not fixed![/QB]

This I will agree with, the PPB is out of line compared to everything else. I'll also agree with Wardad that crystaline weapons are still underpowered for their research cost.

I want to see a game where all of the weapon systems have a place, and there is no one dominant weapon system. I think we are getting closer, but there is still a ways to go.

geoschmo · #26 May 24th, 2002, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
Shields were becomeing a bit out of vouge in the PBW games I have been playing lately. People don't bother because as soon as they put them on the other guy comes in with engine destroyers. Geoschmo

I think most the people (me included) doesn't bother to use shields, mostly because the PPB... and this weapon still was not fixed!

But that's the point. With PBB's early and then Ionic weapons later there isn't even any reason to research shields. Now there is. Anything that makes people think more about their research and design is a good thing. This gives people choices. And as Alpha says they are still pretty useful as they aren't much less powerful than PPB's and they skip armor.

Will races that are heavily devoted to ionic weapons have to adapt? Yes, and they should anyway, but they shouldn't scrap the ionic weapons altogether. One weapon only is boring.

And I would be very careful trying to change the PPB's. I disagree they are too powerful. Maybe a little too easy to research, but that could be said about a lot of stuff in SEIV. They are kind of expensive, which helps balance them. And they aren't that much stronger than APB's and Meson BLasters.

Geoschmo

[ May 23, 2002, 23:23: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Mudshark · #27 May 24th, 2002, 01:05 AM

Perhaps engine damaging weapons should be blocked by phased sheilds, but not normal? This may rebalance the use of phased sheilds? thoughts?

Mudshark · #28 May 24th, 2002, 01:23 AM

The more I think about this, the balance is maintained, Phased sheild 1 sucks, another reason that an early phased shield is good

Mudshark · #29 May 24th, 2002, 01:29 AM

The massive engine destroying weapon could still be a uber weapon, skip all sheilds, after all it is ruins discoverd

Master Belisarius · #30 May 24th, 2002, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
But that's the point. With PBB's early and then Ionic weapons later there isn't even any reason to research shields. Now there is.
[/QB]

I must disagree, sorry Geo!
At the time that I can research a decent Phased Shield, most the people had Shield Depleters and use it with PPB from a long time ago, and with very good results (or use the Null Space Projector), ERGO: still the Shields are not a good option.

The only decent defense against short/a-bit-short range weapons (like PPB and Null space projector) "was" the Ionic Disperser.

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Will races that are heavily devoted to ionic weapons have to adapt? Yes, and they should anyway, but they shouldn't scrap the ionic weapons altogether.
[/QB]

95% sure that most the AI races should not use Ionic Dispersers anymore. Maybe the Temporal races (because their bonus against shields), could still use the Ionic Disperser.

Quote:

And I would be very careful trying to change the PPB's. I disagree they are too powerful. Maybe a little too easy to research, but that could be said about a lot of stuff in SEIV. They are kind of expensive, which helps balance them. And they aren't that much stronger than APB's and Meson BLasters.
Geoschmo[/QB]

Disagree 100% about it.
With the PPB like now, probably still I'll not use shields anyway.
Come on Geo, you can't tell me "maybe a little too easy to research"!!! Compare it to the cost to research some good Crystaline/Organics weapons!
The PPB is VERY easy to research, and 99% of the good players use it in their ships very fast! And a lot more fast when the game is started with medium tech.
About that they're expensive... I never had problems with their cost.

You said "One weapon only is boring", well, still I have not reasons to do not use more weapons than PPB (and sometimes with Shield Depleters if the opponent have heavy Phased Shields).

What bother me, is that in my view the Ionic Disperser was fixed in the worst way (why not a long reload time like the Null-Space Projector? for example), when still does exist several weapons that are screaming be fixed (PDC, PPB, Shield Depleters, for example).

[ May 24, 2002, 00:40: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]