SC and Thug Diversity Project

[JimMorrison]

Hehehe, well Llama, ironically the Ettin, Cyclops, and Treant were all on my tentative list.

I may just start collecting notes for now, and when your mod comes out, perhaps you would consent to it being added to my "big game balancing package" mod? I would add some other summons as well, but if nothing else, the inclusion of your work would make the full mod that much more likely to come to fruition.

Also, some of those, like the Firebird perhaps don't have many slots? I had intended to look for somewhat humanoid forms for most (and I thought that was the best nerf for Air summons - to give them less slots), so that they would be truly thuggable (options for reinvig, resistance items, etc).

Oh and as far as the Ether Lord goes, I am intending to somewhat balance these summons relative to A) Bane Lord, 12 gems, and B) Elemental Royalty, 50 gems. The Ether Lord is just not very cost effective for 90 gems. I've completed over a dozen MP games, and almost every single game I have seen Bane Lords AND Royalty, not once have I seen an Ether Lord used.

And anyway, reiterating Llama's comment - I don't think there can be too many viable summons. If I were -only- adding summons to Astral, then it would be a stupid mod, but if every other path is getting useful stuff too, I hardly see how including Astral is an issue. The goal of my mod will not be to balance the relative usefulness of the paths, just to insure that you are not hamstrung completely by your path selection (or gem income! sometimes you get TONS of one type of gem, and nothing to spend them on - not for long now).

[Aezeal]

You know what I think...
I think this should be in the mod forum.

Jim I meant you could use something similar as an astral summon (maybe same sprite) but with better stats and summoned alone. "Ether" ehm... "something higher than Lord"

That was what you asked for right an idea for a new summon for astral? no me mentioning that ether spell just for fun?

[llamabeast]

Hehe, I was also vaguely thinking of doing a big game balancing mod!

But yes, of course. The more awesome things we all make, the better. I think you can consider any mods I make to be open source.

[Panpiper]

Dominions Two had an Arch Angel astral summons that I really missed when I moved on to Dominions Three. It was a level 7 conjuration requiring astral five and 50 'pearls' to summon. It came with a bodyguard of five 'regular' angels. It's stats were nowhere near that of a Seraph being much more in line with a typical thug. What made it nice was that it had fire 3 and holy 4!

I miss my Arch Angels.

[llamabeast]

They're still available as a Marignon and Pythium summon, judging from your description.

[JimMorrison]

Hehehe sorry about that Aezeal, I thought you were just saying that Astral didn't need summons because of the Ether Lord, and other reasons. And I asked that this not be moved to the mod forum -yet- so I can get some preliminary ideas from the people who don't check into the subforum often, if ever.

And I agree, something like an Ether Duke, or something or other. Or maybe make Vastnesses summonable, or Visitors. One could argue that doing so would erode R'lyeh's uniqueness, but they'd be fairly expensive, and would allow R'lyeh access to them if they are having crappy luck with the Void Gate (yay, more Lesser Othernesses.....).

Going to start a tentative list in the first post, with ideas people have posted, and what I already had in mind. I'll list things like the Ettin (but not every summon from Llama's list) since it was already my starting point. It'll show up in about 10 minutes from this post.

[JimMorrison]

Got distracted, and had trouble with a couple. Oh and you also took Shishi from me, Llama. Air was very troublesome, but I found a couple of things, and really, with your blessing Llama, I may just borrow yours, and let Air have less overall diversity, to appease the masses.

Most of what I intend to do is going to be pretty straightforward, as long as I can get by with a minimum of graphical work (I am not above cannibalizing to get the job done!). I'll start drawing up stats tomorrow I think, and as long as this can get just a little more exposure out here, for other comments/submissions, then it can be moved to the mod forum very soon.

Thanks everyone. <3 And yes, I know Death doesn't "need", but I've had that image in my head for some time now, as an Enchantment summon, and I couldn't resist.

[Aezeal]

OK I'm not reading that first post but just trying to come up with some idea's myself

Astral:
- Ether Champion (allows for multiples of it and sounds strong in general.)
- (after having been in my earth section: ) Crystal Golem, could have luck (onebattle), eyeloss, horrormark (those last 2 are pretty extreme), resistances for everything if needed.
- Shapeshifter (multiple forms for multiple needs, could have any power, could have a thug version of it and a shapeshifter lord as SC version.)

Nature:
- Vine Giant. Could be anysize, could be any strength, could have a whole lot of abilities (reinvig, regen, entangle) and full slots.

Earth:
- Iron Golem (or some other metal golem) same as vine giant could be anysize, could have reinvig, high prot, any strength, trample, quite some resistances if needed, full slots.

Water:
- Living whirlpool (not something for slots, so not really what you wanted, could even be a unit not a leader) could be just powerfull and with a devour attack that can kill anything.

Air:
- living hurricane: same as above ... ok air elementals resemble this but this would be way more powerfull.. if you want to keep air somewhat balanced (not a fill scale SC) this could be an option as commander or leader.
- Thunderbird (has been done somewhere as a modded summon somewhere)

Earth/Fire:
- Awaken Vulcano: immobile vulcano which can attack with streams of lava upclose and shoot fiery boulders at range. A defensive powerhouse, could also be a mindless trooper needing a mage to control it.

Fire:
- Efreti (I've had them in a mod, just not as sc quality but could easily be anything you want) fire mage, heat, fire shield etc etc are all option.

[JimMorrison]

Mmmm, I like the Crystal Golem. Maybe with a little work, could come up with a less generic identity for it, too.

The Adom is sort of like the Living Hurricane, but has some cool lore behind it, you should check it out on the webs!

For the Whirlpool, I wanted to completely avoid "aquatic only" summons. There are a number of useful ones that already get mostly avoided, since they are so hard for land nations to gain solid access to, and if you are aquatic you generally don't want to burn gems on stuff that can't crawl onto land when you're ready - at least, not after the early-mid game.

Ifrit seems popular, he was already in my little black book, and is definitely going into the mix in one form or another.

Also, a powerful shapeshifter could be a TON of fun. Give it multiple shapes with no intention of shifting in combat, but just a bit of uncertainty for the enemy as to which form he will attack in. Problem there is that something like that could be fairly challenging for me - this mod has a significant amount of content, but I am trying to work it out so as to minimize the effort required to achieve desired results.

[llamabeast]

Your list has lots of interesting stuff Jim.

If you suggested Shishi ages ago, on a thread in a similar vein to this, then yes, I stole it from you! I got lots of ideas from that thread actually.

I'll endeavour to make a bit of progress this weekend, in the gaps between thesis writing.