OT: World War 3...

[Daynarr]

Atrocities said:
Yes moving away from oil dependancy is something that must be done NOW. It should have been done in the late 70's and early 80's but we all know that the all might oil dollar speaks louder than common sense. Now the oil voice doesn't have the same sirens call that it has held for so many years. Higher prices in oil will promote alternative, and soon the standard to oil.

I seriously hope you are right about this.

[Randallw]

Atrocities said:
Yes moving away from oil dependancy is something that must be done NOW. It should have been done in the late 70's and early 80's but we all know that the all might oil dollar speaks louder than common sense. Now the oil voice doesn't have the same sirens call that it has held for so many years. Higher prices in oil will promote alternative, and soon the standard to oil.

I eagerly anticipate the day we move to other forms of energy, however long that takes. You can use nuclear energy, and who happens to be one of the largest exporters of Uranium. Australia. You can use solar energy and who happens to have large tracts of desert with the largest period of sunlight in the world. Australia. I even read somewhere of plans to build solar chimneys. 1 mile high structures that funnel hot wind. I don't know the specifics but the PM recently said Australia could become an energy superpower. Of course when oil is no longer used the middle east will rapidly become poor, well poorer, for the majority of it's people. The sheiks and stuff will still have plenty of money left though.

[Dizzy]

When you get F-18's to run on corn oil, then we won't need 12 CB groups.

[Will]

Renegade 13 said:
- Israel invades Lebanon on the ground, says it's just defending it's sovereignty and trying to root out the terrorist Hezbollah.

Basically happening right now, only it isn't a full-scale invasion (at least last I checked this morning). They are blowing up buildings, and firing mortar shells into Lebanon, blockading ports with their navy, and blew up the runways; but so far, no invasion.

Renegade 13 said:
- Syria joins in on Lebanon's side, with Iran joining a little later.

I'm going to disagree on a technicality here. Iran and Syria give ideological support to Hezbollah, and more under-the-table financial and munitions support, but Syria will not go in on Lebanon's side. If anything, they would go in on Hezbollah's side, but I don't think that will happen because it would be suicide. Syria and Lebanon are enemies, and Syria was evicted from Lebanon IIRC about a year ago. Hezbollah is NOT Lebanon, it is a militant group with a political wing inside of Lebanon.

Renegade 13 said:
- Now it's Israel against Lebanon, Syria and Iran. Israel can't take that much punishment, so it calls on it's allies in the region and around the world to help out...the US included. This would leave the US in quite the dilemma. Do you help the state that you've supported militarily for the past 60 years, or do you stand back and see what happens when the dust settles?

Israel wouldn't need to call in help. If Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and for good measure I'll even throw in Jordan and the Hamas portion of the Palestinan forces... if all of them went to war with Israel, they would be in a bind fighting on multiple fronts, but Israel would win handily. Israel has total air and sea superiority in the region, and has superior well trained ground forces. Any large resistance would be quickly decapitated, and degenerate into much smaller guerilla skirmishes, where Israel is not as strong as far as resources and tactics, but such fighting in no way would threaten the existence of the state of Israel. After the armies of the arab nations are quickly dispatched, there might be international help for Israel to police the area, but it won't really be needed. Of course, it will happen anyway, as western nations get another taste of imperialism and get their quick fix from the resources in the Middle East.

Renegade 13 said:
- Some of Israels allies join in, followed by a whole bunch of the Arabic nations in the area.

Should all these countries be so foolish to try to challenge an obviously superior foe, the rest of the Arab countries would not join in, because they know after the initial defeat of their neighbors (which would happen before anyone else has a chance to join in the fight on the side of Israel), there will be many more countries to defeat if another attempt is made. They will opt to save their own necks, and not get involved.

Renegade 13 said:
- War spreads all over...

I still think war will eventually happen on a very large scale, just not from this alone. More likely candidates for causing a global conflict would be a Middle East that is already chaotic from perrenial clashes between Israel and its neighbors, with the added unrest caused by poor transition of power in Iraq from US Military to Iraqis, being ignited by an overflowing spat between India and Pakistan. Since the US has given support to India in their nuclear program while spurning Pakistan, the military government of Pakistan will seek nuclear power through other means, most likely Russia via Iran. An escalating fight between India and Pakistan will cause a corresponding buildup of troops in Iran and China; Iran because they will be allies of Pakistan because of a shared nuclear program, China because they will be concerned about fighting spilling over into their territory. Iran would take the opportunity of this distraction to quietly move forces into Iraq, where the pupils of Iran's religious extremist leaders will have solidified their power. China's buildup of troops will escalate things more between India and Pakistan, and some of their agression will be directed back at China, since it would be much easier for China to take the parts of Pakistan and India that they still claim if the two are busy fighting each other; an initially defensive move then becomes seen as agression. China getting involved will get North Korea involved, because it would be an opportunistic time to flex what might they have and maybe try to cross into South Korea, or maybe just toss some more missiles around. Once North Korea gets involved in things, Japan gets really worried, and by this time, North American and European governments will be getting involved thinking "how the #ell did all this happen?"

[dogscoff]

<...Isreal vs the rest of the middle east...>
After the armies of the arab nations are quickly dispatched, there might be international help for Israel to police the area, but it won't really be needed. Of course, it will happen anyway, as western nations get another taste of imperialism and get their quick fix from the resources in the Middle East.

I think maybe this is what the West+Isreal wants. It certainly seems to me that they've been acting more to provoke the arab world over the last few years than to bring about any kind of reconciliation.

Maybe they just want to provoke the arab people until they start a war (so the west doesn't look like the aggressors), then Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Blair and chums can win it and do what they want with the oil fields. Of course they'll cripple entire countries, cause untold death and misery, and sow the seeds of overwhelming hatred in a dozen unborn generations of middle easterners but hey, as long as the shareholders are happy.

[NTJedi]

Renegade 13 said:
Here's how I see things progressing:

- Israel invades Lebanon on the ground, says it's just defending it's sovereignty and trying to root out the terrorist Hezbollah.
- Syria joins in on Lebanon's side, with Iran joining a little later.
- Now it's Israel against Lebanon, Syria and Iran. Israel can't take that much punishment, so it calls on it's allies in the region and around the world to help out...the US included. This would leave the US in quite the dilemma. Do you help the state that you've supported militarily for the past 60 years, or do you stand back and see what happens when the dust settles?
- Some of Israels allies join in, followed by a whole bunch of the Arabic nations in the area.
- War spreads all over...

The next World War won't start from the Arabic nations... it will start when two or more powerful nations secretly agree to join as a team and try conquering another nation for its land and resources. As a result the US and its allies will react and probably stop them.

The more closer issue at hand is when and who will do the first nuclear strike plus where will they strike. My guess is a group of terrorists with people smart enough to use nukes will eventually get their hands on one. The US is hated by many, however the large ocean divides us from those haters and it isn't easy crossing an ocean with a nuke without word getting out. There's more violence in the arab nations... so I estimate a capital city will be targeted by the terrorists. I estimate the next terrorist attack in the US will be some type of deadly gas or explosion at an international airport.

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

I can't seem to figure out why the good people of Lebanon let a bunch of A-holes like Hezbollah operate out of their borders. Just like I can't figure out why after 60 years people continue to mess with Israel.
I was quite amused when an American University student was *****ing about how this was "all Israel's fault" while she was being evacuated.
If I lived in Lebanon, I would have expected such retaliation. Duh!

[Hunpecked]

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro said:
Just like I can't figure out why after 60 years people continue to mess with Israel.

The Arab/Persian leaders who incite and finance war against Israel never suffer the consequences. So, not surprisingly, they're perfectly willing to fight to the last Palestinian.

[Atrocities]

Oh boy this mess is getting out of hand fast. I hate to say it here, but the player here, Isreal, should step off the plate and make right through peace efforts the wrongs that Hezbolla (sp) and others have forced on to them. What does it say about you if you beat a retard to death all because he threw a rock at your cat. (Kidnapping aside, the UN should force them to return those soldiers alive and well to show the world that the peace prevails over war.)

God help them all if they cannot calm things down. God help us all if we have to pick and choose sides.

[Renegade 13]

I bet those soldiers are already dead...

Not to mention the fact that the UN is toothless and partisan, and always has been.