Guide MA Mictlan - An Introduction - Page 3

AreaOfEffect · #21 June 29th, 2008, 01:01 AM

Indeed it does, and is not entirely outside the realm of what MA Mictlan can do all on it's own.

Revised Opinion: Eh, not so much. It seems that astral tempest hits a percentage of the battlefield every round. This leaves large gaps that I don't really enjoy. Something like earthquake or rain of stones would be my preference as they are sure to hit every unit, or at least attempt to. This however is not something Mictlan can do without help from the pretender or without a lot of empowerment/luck.

Ming · #22 July 11th, 2008, 06:33 AM

F9S9 can also get you into blood through Wish, but getting so many S gems could be a problem.

How about a dormant rainbow enchanter, say, F4W1E4S6D2N1? Gives you access to fetish and clams, Wish, hammer, etc. etc. but the risk is that with only a weak bless and average scales you might not be strong enough to survive the early game.

Ming · #23 July 11th, 2008, 06:38 AM

AreaOfEffect,

I forgot to add: Good guide. Sorry.

AreaOfEffect · #24 July 11th, 2008, 08:45 PM

Well thank you and don't be sorry. As for a rainbow god, I'm not about to dismiss the usefulness of such a god. Magic diversity of the such always keeps your god busy doing something and can really open up doors. I would never tell you not to do such a thing. I would however tell you what I think and why I choose to do what I do.

I personally don't play with such diverse gods for a couple of basic reasons. The first has already been pointed out, which is that such a god can't help but consume a lot of design points while giving you no early game advantage, either with good scales or a good bless.

The other basic reason is that your god is too busy. Such gods often find themselves doing all the work, and when they need to do work on a secondary task the primary tasks don't get done. An example would be the fetish and clam forging. Turning your god into a factory has a serious draw back. Ideally you would want to be churning out a fetish and clam every turn at some point. Yet your god can't make both clams and a fetishes at the same time. Also, if he has something better to do, such as cast wish, make a hammer, ect. ect., then you're not producing the items you expected him to. It gets even worse when you want to take your god out on the warpath.

My preference is to build a god who elevates your other units so that they can do the grunt work instead. For example, I'm in a game where I went for a 4E4S5D master lich (same as the example). One purpose in choosing earth and astral is to allow me to make crystal coins. The crystal coins so far have allowed me to spam more then one mind hunt a turn with only construction 4. Later on my Couatls will move armies around via Astral Travel thanks to crsyal coins plus stashine caps. The point is that after my god has made the coins he doesn't have to mind hunt or move armies around himself leaving him free to do a other things, such as exercise that death magic. Diversity is good, but it should still have a focus somewhere. If you really want to make a gem factory then I suggest you choose one gem type only. In your example I would drop the fire magic completely as clams are more useful to an astral 6 god (and it also requires less micro-management then fetishes).

Either way, I bid you good luck in your games.

Ming · #25 July 12th, 2008, 12:57 AM

AreaOfEffect,

Good points. Thank you.

AreaOfEffect · #26 August 20th, 2008, 09:26 PM

Revised my guide. Attempted to remove some superfluous comments that weren't generally informative. Made a few of the corrections I said I would do previously. I also added a section to address some of the nation's weaknesses or drawbacks. (No, lack of blood magic is not one of them.)

Feel free to add your collective experience, either on the giving or receiving end of Mictlan's might.

archaeolept · #27 August 21st, 2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rytek

Oops, that must have been an earlier patch then. My opponrnt in one MA game definetly had a moloch, although that was a few patches ago. He did use the ethereal and luck to good use though.

I believe that was me

I had the last MA Mictlan Moloch ever... the patch that deleted him from the list came out just after the game started... I was a little bit worried i'd suddenly have him transform into a magicless arch-mage

also, of about 40-50 turkeys, i got 4 or 5 with a blood random

I figured it was in keeping with my god's plan to bring mictlan back to the true path...

chrispedersen · #28 February 10th, 2009, 03:18 AM

Pretender: Imprisoned Oracle. T3S3H3D3L3M3. F9W9S4 Dom 7

There are some days, JK/KO do a really great job of giving a race a really good look and feel. MA Mictlan is one of those times.

Okay, you're probably already protesting at the *horrible* scales. So how on earth can it work? Well just like in EA/LA it all boils down to the Mictlan Priest.

Your basic unit of conquest will be a MP, hanging all the way in the corner, with 7 jags a tad to the south. Bless, bless, bless hold hold... and your choice after that. Just keep him out of harms way.

This basic unit of conquest will work for almost anything except heavy cav, and deer archers. For cav, throw in a screen of slaves. For really heavy provinces - hit em with two groups.

First turn: If mountains are close, jack up taxes to 200%.
Prophetize your scout. Have your commander patrol. Leave him there, patroling. Build your first researcher. Yep, a Mictlan priest.

You'll be building your first castle on turn 3.
Your basic unit of conquest 7*25 gp +60 = 235 gp. Whenever someone takes a hit, and loses some troops, either build a fort, or bring him back to research.

That same mictlan priest- 60 gp buys ..... 5 research points. Sacred research points. Or 12/gp per rp. The cheapest research in the game, afaik.

And it has one cute little aside... If you were so lucky as to build your second castle next to your first... (Sacrilege, for most races - but perfect for mictlan.. I mean - your whole buildout takes 22 resources.).... you don't even have to build a lab. Just build a temple, and crank out your researchers. Now thats cost efficient! Run them over to your capital to research. Sure sure, someday when you have money you don't know what to do with.. build a second lab.. just not.. now.

So what do you do with those researchers. Construction-2. Somewhere in your first few turns, build a sky priest or 4. See, Mictlan loves animals. Toads, oscelots, jaguars, blood bats... Oops sorry reverted to an earlier age... oh yes.. Owl quills.

Sure, sure, everyone is going to say I've got better use for my air gems than quills. Maybe they do... but 5 research points, and 5 air gems buys you 3 rp. If you can finagle a dwarven hammer you're a better player than I..

By rapidly building a fort, (and keeping up that fort construction rate) you are essentially doubling your research rate. Sometime around turn 12 you should be around 150 rp.

So, sometime around turn 9, I like to build my first nature, fire, priests. Although if you get lucky with getting the Mictlan National dead guy, you might want to consider conjuration. I switch over to thaum for the site searching spells. Dead guy will also give you a convenient entry into blood.

It really is best to play with graphs off. You have good prospects at being tops in provinces & forts - and research will be top third. But if you are playing with graphs on - you might want to hopskotch a few territories so you can take them at your leisure.

A few other notes: Taking S5 on your pretender allows eventual rings o sorcery, rings o wizardry.

AreaOfEffect · #29 February 10th, 2009, 09:31 AM

Interesting. I would never play this way personally. Mostly because I don't like having a bunch of Mictlan Priests who are practically useless to me when it comes to combat.

I find the the Nahualli, even with less research, is more dangerous and very versatile. There mobility is also a very big plus for me. It allows them to deploy, win, and comeback home easily. I also favor taking more reliable scales, like order, and just spend more money on better mage-priests.

When I get the time I might write up a guide for the Mictlan I would play if forced into a game right now. I've already used this Mictlan in MP and it can be very effective. It also would surprise a lot of people out there, while the Fire-Water bless is highly predictable and susceptible to known counters.

Still, I like your shrewd approach. Granted, having scales on might make you a target, but it might also make you one of those, "I'll deal with them later" factions who creep along the game being unchecked because they have a good bless, powerful research, and perhaps some good diplomacy.

chrispedersen · #30 February 10th, 2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect

Interesting. I would never play this way personally. Mostly because I don't like having a bunch of Mictlan Priests who are practically useless to me when it comes to combat.

I find the the Nahualli, even with less research, is more dangerous and very versatile. There mobility is also a very big plus for me. It allows them to deploy, win, and comeback home easily. I also favor taking more reliable scales, like order, and just spend more money on better mage-priests.

When I get the time I might write up a guide for the Mictlan I would play if forced into a game right now. I've already used this Mictlan in MP and it can be very effective. It also would surprise a lot of people out there, while the Fire-Water bless is highly predictable and susceptible to known counters.

Still, I like your shrewd approach. Granted, having scales on might make you a target, but it might also make you one of those, "I'll deal with them later" factions who creep along the game being unchecked because they have a good bless, powerful research, and perhaps some good diplomacy.

Thanks!

Yeah, I actually *really* liked your comment about the nahuli flying turkey. And some of those tactics you mentioned are ones I really should incorporate in my game play.

The problem I have with a nahuli is that I never really know what to do with a S/N mage in middle age. To me, they always scream: Horror mark/ curse.. which is a tactic better suited early and late. Now they are still fodder for communions - but so are what quarter/half? (B/S randoms?) of mictlan priests. And jags don't *need* mage support to slaughter elephants.

14 jags and two priests 470 gp - will easily handle 4 elephants and random commander.

Mictlan priests - early middle AND late are my top 3 favorite units in the game.

Great Blood hunter - or great magic diversity.
Great Researcher
GREAT Bless Platform
Great Lab builder (ME)/Great Temple Builder
Great Communion Fodder

And on top of that - they can blood hunt, and blood sacrifice as well (EA, LA).

And they have one other feature I really, really like: Low opportunity cost. With a pretender or high cost mage unit - you're always debating alternatives. The cost of a mictlan priest is so small, you can afford him to enter that tiny strange hut - you can afford him to site search - sure theres not much chance - but there's also not much risk - and if it can save you from having a higher cost mage do it - its probably worth it.