Some minor UI gripes

[licker]

What I don't like about the r-click is that when you r-click to exit, but your cursor is ontop of some thing with a pop-up you get the damn pop-up.

Its better now (Dom2) than it was. Its not that hard to step on esc, believe me after a few hours of game play you probably won't even notice what you're doing

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by licker:
What I don't like about the r-click is that when you r-click to exit, but your cursor is ontop of some thing with a pop-up you get the damn pop-up.

Its better now (Dom2) than it was. Its not that hard to step on esc, believe me after a few hours of game play you probably won't even notice what you're doing

You're so self-centered!!! What about all the one-handed gamers? Seriously, there are one-handed gamers, but even more people that like to play (conveniently) without having to learn any keyboard commands.

[licker]

Heh, keyboard commands? You mean like when it says enter god name they want a little keyboard on the screen so that they can click on the letters ala the arcades?

Hotkeys is one thing, the use of 'esc' as a general back up or close window is so ingraned in every computer game I've ever played I can't see it being lumped in with hot keys...

One handed gamers indeed! I don't care about catering to the minority, just get a damn prostethsis already!!!

PS. If my sense of humor leaves you flat, grow the hell up

PPS. No one handed gamers were injured in the posting of this post.

PPPS. They may have been injured upon reading it though...

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:

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Originally posted by PDF:
About the r-click in Dom1, I honestly thinks that what was "unfriendly" to new players is that it was the ONLY way to exit, and not a standard one !
Now that there is standard "exit" buttons, r-click would only be a welcome additionnal easy shortcut to exit ... better than Esc key

I liked right-click exit. But it was unfamiliar... I don't like scrolling down a menu to find the exit button. Every exitable menue should have a big "X in a Square" in the upper-right corner, where you click to exit.

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I'm having a Deja Vu here. Same proposals were made when we started beta testing game, but little later nobody cared. This game (and lots of others I've played) is played best using keyboard shortcuts and ESC isn't so much of a problem.

Since you can order your commanders to search, patrol, research, etc. within a few seconds (using S, R, X, or other keys) it is logical choice to get used to those shortcuts since they save you time, clicks and make game even more enjoyable experience. After that you won’t care about ESC, trust me (been there, done that ).

Just some tips on UI here. You can group your commanders by left clicking on them and holding CTRL at the same time (ungrouping works same way). Grouped commanders can take orders together, like move, search, research, patrol etc and makes it much easier to make conquest armies combined of standard commanders, priests and mages.

Another one is that when you select commander, all shortcut commands will apply to him only (or them if it’s a group). However, if NO commander is selected just placing mouse over one of them and using shortcut will set that order for him (saves you a click).

Example: You want your mage to research spells. Method 1 is to select him (left click on him) and press Shift+r, which will give him research command. Method 2 is make sure you didn’t select anyone, place mouse over him and press Shift+r. That will also give him research order.

Method No. 2 is much faster and easier so I warmly recommend it.

[Leif_-]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
[QB] I'm having a Deja Vu here. Same proposals were made when we started beta testing game, but little later nobody cared. This game (and lots of others I've played) is played best using keyboard shortcuts and ESC isn't so much of a problem.

But Beta-testers has to stay with the program. Potential customers ("potential fellow addicts" to me) do not. Hot-keys are userfriendly, but they are not beginner friendly (two terms that are often confused) - especially when the documentation that came with the demo was completely insufficent and that there are no "hints" about what the hot-keys are (such as differently-coloured letters in menu names etc.) A game needs to be both user-friendly and beginner-friendly. Dominions 2 is not beginner-friendly at all.

As for my gripes about the UI:

All screens in the game are exited by the "esc" key, except the battle-view which is exited by the "q" key. Let "esc" also exit that.

Have to exit a report screen to open a new report screen. To look at two report screens I first have to press Fx for the first one, then escape to return to the main screen, then Fy for the second one and finally escape once again to return to the main screen. What I _should_ be able to do is to press Fx to go to the first report screen, Fy to switch to the second and then Esc to return to the main screen.

"Exit" buttons as the Last element of a scroll-list. You should never have to scroll to find an exit button.

The "Dominions candles" just doesn't give me the same quick overview as the "grey-scale map" did in Dom I. I'd have preferred to have some kind of translucent overlay on the map to show the dominion (and also things such as unrest, provinse defenses and tax-levels.)

Incidentally (as I don't have a working copy of Dom2 at work) is there any way to select a region using just the keyboard? I.e. not having to first point and click on it with the mouse.

[PDF]

I heartily agree with Leif's suggestiosn, especially for the Dominions effect view : the candles are not that informative - at least they sghould have a number beside them - and the Dom1 shading was very clear.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that instead of a rather clumsy mix of buttons (that obstruct map view), submenus, mouse maneuvers and keys (that are not intuitive), the game would benefit greatly from a simple vanilla top menu bar (File/View/Orders/...) with dropdown submenus that will give new players COMPREHENSIVE info about the available functions/orders/features...

These menus are maybe out of date for games since some time, but if Dom2 could only have an interface as clean as Civ2 it'll be a big step forward ...

[ October 30, 2003, 12:26: Message edited by: PDF ]

[st.patrik]

Originally posted by Leif_-:

quote:

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Originally posted by Daynarr:
[QB] I'm having a Deja Vu here. Same proposals were made when we started beta testing game, but little later nobody cared. This game (and lots of others I've played) is played best using keyboard shortcuts and ESC isn't so much of a problem.

But Beta-testers has to stay with the program. Potential customers ("potential fellow addicts" to me) do not. Hot-keys are userfriendly, but they are not beginner friendly (two terms that are often confused) - especially when the documentation that came with the demo was completely insufficent and that there are no "hints" about what the hot-keys are (such as differently-coloured letters in menu names etc.) A game needs to be both user-friendly and beginner-friendly. Dominions 2 is not beginner-friendly at all.

As for my gripes about the UI:

All screens in the game are exited by the "esc" key, except the battle-view which is exited by the "q" key. Let "esc" also exit that.

Have to exit a report screen to open a new report screen. To look at two report screens I first have to press Fx for the first one, then escape to return to the main screen, then Fy for the second one and finally escape once again to return to the main screen. What I _should_ be able to do is to press Fx to go to the first report screen, Fy to switch to the second and then Esc to return to the main screen.

"Exit" buttons as the Last element of a scroll-list. You should never have to scroll to find an exit button.

The "Dominions candles" just doesn't give me the same quick overview as the "grey-scale map" did in Dom I. I'd have preferred to have some kind of translucent overlay on the map to show the dominion (and also things such as unrest, provinse defenses and tax-levels.)

Incidentally (as I don't have a working copy of Dom2 at work) is there any way to select a region using just the keyboard? I.e. not having to first point and click on it with the mouse.

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Do you want any of this posted on the "MASTER LIST" of suggestions? It's a full list of all the issues that people have brought up, requested by Kristoffer. I think some might be on there, but go here and post a reply if you want stuff added.

[Calanor]

I wholeheartedly agree with Leif_- when it comes to the translucent overlay - in particular when it comes to the dominion, but also other types of information (including, of course, actual territory).

[Psitticine]

You can zoom to a province with the keyboard by typing # and then the province's number. The province numbers are in parentheses next to their names both on the map itself and in the Nation Overview screen.

[LordArioch]

The esc key really doesnt cause that much trouble, although I would like my right click too, and being able to directly Fx between say, magic research and gem income would be nice too. I often forget it doesnt work and try it anyway.

But in general the UI is very easy to operate. I go around hitting r,b,t,e and shift clicking like nobody's business.
And the ctrl-1 through 9 to save order setups is really nice too.