Carrion Woods Reanimations - Page 3

PrinzMegaherz · #21 April 30th, 2004, 04:02 PM

Hm, it seems most people here would like CW to be an Ashen Empire with different graphics.

One thing I would like to discuss is whether CW dominion really should kill inhabitants. Maybe I'm wrong, but province population is not necesserely human. Take Caelum as an example: Their provinces are inhabited by Caelian people, which explains their need for cold provinces. And if we follow this path of logic, shouldn't Pangaea Provinces be populated with Satyrs and Minotaurs and whatever? Why is CW Dominion killing its own people / why are those people killed by your dominions willing to fight (get recruited as national units) for you?

I'm not sure, but maybe someone could try and mod CW without killer dominion, and look if its too powerful.

Kristoffer O · #22 April 30th, 2004, 04:52 PM

The same reason the god of Ermor is killing it's own people. The wrathful god of the carrion woods detest all life, human in particular. All that is living dies and kreeping growth infests the flesh and bones of the living.

Chris Byler · #23 April 30th, 2004, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
The same reason the god of Ermor is killing it's own people. The wrathful god of the carrion woods detest all life, human in particular. All that is living dies and kreeping growth infests the flesh and bones of the living.

Well, that's creepy and all, but killing one's own subjects is hardly an effective way to take over the world, unless you bring *a lot* of them back from the dead to fight for you.

CW has most of the weaknesses of the dead Ermors (no population base, very low gold income, hard to use living troops, relies on summoned mages/commanders, vulnerable to anti-undead spells) but less of their strengths (fewer autosummons, not amphibious, far fewer design points, no extra gems from home site). In addition one of their main magic paths (nature) has as one of its major foci, providing support to living troops (supply, healing, regeneration - all ineffective on lifeless undead with no need to eat).

Has anyone tried making extensive use of poison items/spells with CW? Is it just too hard to get the necessary nature mages? Too easy to counter? Too slow acting even when it works? Also, since your dominion is going to kill your population anyway, why not pillage it to bring in some gold while it's still alive?

Finally, I think all capitol restrictions should be removed from CW. The few living worshippers of the carrion God should keep moving to stay ahead of His wrath even as they bring it to new lands, and thus, they should be available for recruitment anywhere. Capitol only recruitment with a killer dominion is a death sentence for that unit, and although living worshipers of the carrion God are certainly doomed if they succeed, they should be permitted to live long enough to accomplish His purpose.

Norfleet · #24 April 30th, 2004, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Well, that's creepy and all, but killing one's own subjects is hardly an effective way to take over the world, unless you bring *a lot* of them back from the dead to fight for you.

I once again point to my sig: Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill all, and you are a god!

Now what's the objective of Dominions II again?

I rest my case.

Chris Byler · #25 May 1st, 2004, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Well, that's creepy and all, but killing one's own subjects is hardly an effective way to take over the world, unless you bring *a lot* of them back from the dead to fight for you.

I once again point to my sig: Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill all, and you are a god!

As others have pointed out before, this should really read "Kill all, and you are very very alone."

Quote:

Now what's the objective of Dominions II again?

To kill up to 16 specific other beings, none of whom are your subjects.

Even if you want to kill everyone, it matters a whole lot *what order* you kill them in. Kill your faithful servants *Last*. (Maybe I should put that in *my* sig... the Iron Pigs quote is getting old.)

odd_enuf · #26 May 1st, 2004, 06:28 AM

i have a question about the reanimating formula for the unholy priests. In the write up linked below its listed as "unholylevel/2 +1dd2-1" but it doesn't say whether the first part of the fomula is rounded down or up. if its rounded down then carrion lords reanimate 1-2, ladies 1-2, and centairs 0-1. 2 ladies reanime 2-4, while 3 centairs (approx. the same gem cost) give 0-3, making ladies the best reamimaters. If rounded up centairs and ladies reanimate the same. So 5 centars would reanimate 5-10 per round, while 2 lords (the same cost in gems) would reanimate only 4-6 per round, making the centairs the best. so which is it?

odd_enuf

Yossar · #27 May 1st, 2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:

quote:
Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
The same reason the god of Ermor is killing it's own people. The wrathful god of the carrion woods detest all life, human in particular. All that is living dies and kreeping growth infests the flesh and bones of the living.

Well, that's creepy and all, but killing one's own subjects is hardly an effective way to take over the world, unless you bring *a lot* of them back from the dead to fight for you.

If you're the God of creeping death you gotta go with what you know. And I don't think the people you're killing are necessarily your subjects. They pay taxes but they aren't happy about it and then they die. I think like AE and SG Ermor, your dominion strength doesn't represent how many and how strongly people worship you. It's more like how many and how strongly people fear you. Worshipping you or fearing you both keep people thinking about you and thus make you stronger. Fear and respect are just different means to the same end.

Molog · #28 May 10th, 2004, 02:25 AM

Been playing with Pangea carrion woods now.
Also have a shortage of nature gems, but plenty of death gems.
Some things I've been doing.

I use mound kings to round up all the undead spawning. Also keep a couple of mound kings around in provinces to prevent all carrion critters disolving if there's a combat.

I use revenants for research. They research as good as the carrion lady or dryad, but are cheaper.

I let the expensive pans cast twiceborn and send them of to die against the closest enemy in my dominion. They return as undead wight mages which I think don't cost any upkeep and they get +1 to their death level.

Quik question, do shape shanging stuff like twiceborn, transformation, lycanthrope amulet work on pretenders? If yes, my crone is going to be reborn

.

Slygar · #29 May 10th, 2004, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Just why your own minions would be trying to resist your beneficial magic is ... baffling. But as it's easily negated by MR, _most_ of your creatures aren't affected. Not even the low level manikins, despite the spell description stating that it "makes the animating vines of most Manikin on the battlefield regrow at incredible speed"

That spell does stink. It definately needs more penetration. "Magically powerful Mandragora may sometimes resist the spell." Phoeey.

[ May 10, 2004, 04:04: Message edited by: Slygar ]

Cainehill · #30 May 11th, 2004, 05:14 PM

Another weakness of Carrion Woods that should hopefully be corrected. The spawned carrion beasts need a recruited (Pan) or summoned commander in province with them, or... 40 carrion beasts will start dissolving when the province is attacked, even if there is PD, because the PD commander - can't command undead.

Contrast this will Ermor's SG and AE, where the themes each have an undead commander of PD.

Seems to me that Carrion Woods PD ought to be commanded by a carrion centaur, so that the carrion beasts that've been spawned aren't totally useless even for defense until they've been rounded up by an undead capable commander.