Yet another Clamhoarding, Castling Discussion

[Vynd]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
If you can't debate or rebut the content of what they said, attack their spelling?

Hey, don't diss the spelling attack. It's a time-honored distractionary technique that's proven its worth on Internet forums and chatrooms world-wide.

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Proper spelling and grammar is absolutely essential, in all aspects of life! I'm an editor, so I should know!

Say... what's this thread about anyway?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
If you can't debate or rebut the content of what they said, attack their spelling?

You want a rebuttal? It won't be particularly different from what I've already written in many other threads and Messages here.

Anyways, here it is:

Once again, Grahame to the aid of hypothetical children who may be wounded by Norfleet's throw-away remark. These Boards are truly fortunate to have a champion of the people unafraid to take the thread as far off topic as needed. How I look forward to Grahame's next attempt to discredit his percieved enemies with commentary completely irrelevant to the topic at hand

First, you might want to learn how to spell my name, and various other words if you want a serious reply. Secondly, I'm objecting to the patronizing tone that Norfleet uses for just about every post where he discusses anything other than the most basic game mechanics. Thirdly, I happen to dislike it when he pretends that his long off-topic ramblings are somehow on-topic.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
The Ugly:
Certain individuals will whine loudly and complain about how boring this is. These are, incidentally, the same people likely to complain that the game is taking too long, or complain that their turns in a large-map game are now too much work because it takes them 2 hours to complete. This is because they have the attention spans of 6-year old hyperactive children and can't be bothered to concentrate on any task that takes longer than 30 seconds to complete. I place the blame firmly on the fact that they were not beaten frequently enough as small children and did not suffer sufficient hardship and deprivation while growing up. They are thus spoiled and weak, and complain that it is boring if an opponent does not simply roll over and die without resistance.

It should also be noted that the complainers tend to also be the same handful of people. I chalk this up to sour grapes because I always squash them in my preferred slow, deliberate, ponderous, and inexhorable style, which tends to be devoid of any dramatic attacks that tend to rampage unchecked for a bit, then finally fail as the entire mass is caught and annihilated by the defending force, preferring instead to advance gradually, consolidate holdings, and attack only with overwhelming force, or expendable probing attacks.

i too think that children should never be beaten .
But the child beating proposal from norfleet ihmo was only a joke .
it may be distasteful and i don't know norfleet so perhaps i am wrong and he means it really serious. but he has the right of freedom of expression like everybody else here .
the whole discussion about this is really OT .

but in norfleets words lies wisdom :
the guys who always complain when the game Lasts longer and the turns Last longer really have a problem which norfleet called a bit exagerating hyperactive.
they find it useful to blame something else and just never waste a thought that they only lost because they made faults.
but no it is because the enemy uses a unbalanced thing like castling .
i have dom 2 only since 2 weeks and played only patch 2.12 but i can't see why :
-a sphinx may not teleport anymore
-ermor may not use again a vq

the nerfing down of the vq in general was neccessary to make the lichs a bit more attractive i think but it was nerfed down to much a bit ihmo . at least why ermor may not use the more expensive vq at all i don't understand .

so when people continue whining about castling perhaps in the next patch in the same turn in which an army wins a battle in a province with a castle the sieging and defending values are compared immediately and if successful the castle is stormed even in the same turn or each castle costs points even the watchtower or any bad thing like this

Originally posted by Boron:
-a sphinx may not teleport anymore

Norfleet had absolutely nothing to do with this. Even those who started playing Dom2 at when it was released did not appropriately know the pain of the Teleporting Sphinx and it's instant destruction and it, much more than the Vampire Queen ever would be, was more of an issue.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Zen:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:
-a sphinx may not teleport anymore

Norfleet had absolutely nothing to do with this. Even those who started playing Dom2 at when it was released did not appropriately know the pain of the Teleporting Sphinx and it's instant destruction and it, much more than the Vampire Queen ever would be, was more of an issue.

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my posting was not accusing norfleet but mainly sharing his points
i just thought that teleporting at least costs gems and you have to build a lab in the province to which you teleported in order to teleport again right ?
so i perhaps noobishly thought at least you have to pay for your movement and can only move every 2 turns with a sphinx + have to research 3 levels in traumaturgy for teleport .

may a sphinx move by one of the other spells then ? like astral travel ? or the unique artifact which lets you teleport once / turn as special ability ?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
so i perhaps noobishly thought at least you have to pay for your movement and can only move every 2 turns with a sphinx + have to research 3 levels in traumaturgy for teleport .

Sure you have to pay for the gems, but that also gives you a thousand hitpoint piece of stone with a protection of 30 that virtually no early game army can defeat before they are forced to autorout.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Sure you have to pay for the gems, but that also gives you a thousand hitpoint piece of stone with a protection of 30 that virtually no early game army can defeat before they are forced to autorout.

I see the entire "autorout" problem as the fundamental issue at hand: Battles should be fought to the death! Or at least until nobody is actually fighting anymore, for, say, 3 rounds.

Originally posted by Boron:
i just thought that teleporting at least costs gems and you have to build a lab in the province to which you teleported in order to teleport again right ?
so i perhaps noobishly thought at least you have to pay for your movement and can only move every 2 turns with a sphinx + have to research 3 levels in traumaturgy for teleport .

Just imagine, for example. Someone on turn 7 being able to drop their 500hp (usually down to 300 or so in enemy dominion) Sphinx on your capital. With 30 Prot, and a good amount of Astral (needed to even protect from Magic Duel) casting Mind Burn then Soul Slay.

Now while it was possible to defeat, and had it's weaknesses (not many) it was a huge limitation to the choices of pretender designs that could deal with the Telesphinx. Thus, it was changed to being very hard to play. Though not permanantly, remember paitence is a Virtue.

[ June 30, 2004, 22:19: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Zen:
Now while it was possible to defeat, and had it's weaknesses (not many) it was a huge limitation to the choices of pretender designs that could deal with the Telesphinx. Thus, it was changed to being very hard to play.

I recall that you yourself admitted that the Sphinx is now useless, as he is completely immobile by any means, even the higher-level teleportations like Astral Travel, which wouldn't be quite the same threat for a turn-7 teledrop. As he still remains a hefty 60 points, while offering nothing that an Oracle or Sacred Statue cannot, magically or dominionly, and being unable to actually GO anywhere, rendering bringing his physical power to bear impossible, he is useless at 60 points. If he were zero points, he'd be a viable alternative to an Oracle: While totally immobile, he'd be tough and cost no more than the oracle does.

Though not permanantly, remember paitence is a Virtue.

Patience is a VQ. Virtues aren't immune to BoT so can't afford to wait forever.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Zen:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:
i just thought that teleporting at least costs gems and you have to build a lab in the province to which you teleported in order to teleport again right ?
so i perhaps noobishly thought at least you have to pay for your movement and can only move every 2 turns with a sphinx + have to research 3 levels in traumaturgy for teleport .

Just imagine, for example. Someone on turn 7 being able to drop their 500hp (usually down to 300 or so in enemy dominion) Sphinx on your capital. With 30 Prot, and a good amount of Astral (needed to even protect from Magic Duel) casting Mind Burn then Soul Slay.

Now while it was possible to defeat, and had it's weaknesses (not many) it was a huge limitation to the choices of pretender designs that could deal with the Telesphinx. Thus, it was changed to being very hard to play. Though not permanantly, remember paitence is a Virtue.

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ok this is really brutal i agree
almost no nation has a chance to defeat a telesphinx at turn 7 .
but on the other hand now it is completely useless because it can use no other travel spell too as norfleet said . so less variety in pretender selection .
would it perhaps have been possible to either :
-increase the teleportation gem costs ONLY for the sphinx casting it ?
-forbid teleportation in the enemy capital with the sphinx ?