On the cusp...

[Daynarr]

Unwise said:
It was met by hostility because although it theoretically offered some constructive criticism (I too would love to see something like the GalCiv "Epic Generator" to post turn results on a web site), his overall tone was that of a spoiled brat who demands that the game conform to his needs or else he will (*gasp*) Take His Business Elsewhere.

If looked at point-by-point, none of the requests is unreasonable, nor is his tone massively objectionable if looked at dispassionately. But to people who surf this forum because (a) they love the game, (b) they respect a two-man company that can create something with such depth as a part-time hobby, and (c) already have a great deal of time invested in the product, the tone rankles.

It's like you just bought a new 2006 Mustang Convertible, and you absolutely adore it. Then some stranger comes up to you on the street and says "I was going to get one of those, but the chassis is the same as the 2000, the interior is cheap-looking and the manual shift is tough to get used to. Until Ford fixes these problems, I'm not buying one."

None of the points are false, but by making them, the stranger implies (whether by design or not) that you have made a grave error by buying the product. Moreover, you get the impression that he is boasting that he is far more intelligent than you are because he can see the faults for the deal-breakers that they are while you are blind to them due to some (possibly genetic) defect.

I think I agree with everything Unwise said here. However, it only points to reason for such reactions but none of this is actually excuse for it. First of, think about it; by responding like some of you guys have you actually have given wrong impression of this forum, people who play this game and game itself. We are not a bunch of angry adolescents who snap on anything we don't like. This forum is not like that. Even if original poster came out a bit blunt with his post, take a deep breath, calm down and then kindly point to posters mistake. Just by doing that you will show him that this game has great community and great community is a result of great game. By doing what you did, you did exactly the opposite.

Need I mention that there are lots of people who visit these forums but don't post here? Many potentional customers and fellow gamers who could add greatly to this community? Many of them may change their minds and leave when they see posts like you can see here.

A little self control and kind words can go a long way. Let’s keep forums civil and friendly place.

[Gandalf Parker]

Personally I dont want some of those things fixed. Everything has its pros and cons.

Faster map generation leads to fuller map directory which leads to a need for the game to offer file cleanup without any chance of "oops" which leads to less features while thats getting added.

Usually "fixing" the GUI creates a game that wont share window space with other programs. That means I cant check my work screens.

Faster turn processing would get me in trouble. Im a solo player and I can see the desire but PLEASE dont speed it up. That slowness is a major feature for me. It makes sure I check the work screens, feed the pets, check on the kids, crap, and even notice that its dark and Im tired and should go to bed now before my wife kills me.

[Arralen]

Endoperez said:
Can someone explain me why this post was met with such hostility?

Because he posted THREE times on the forum - 1st some points on the Dom3 Wishlist in the Dom2 forum (28/06/05).

Then a post into the Dom3 patch improvements thread ..... and finally, 8 minutes lates, posting the very same text to this new thread: Stating that he wouldn't buy the game unless his wishlist (the one from the Dom2 forum) is fullfilled.

It's just too annoying - I really don't feel like making the effort to show that
A) some of his wishes are already in the game in some way (but he didn't notice, or maybe couldn't because he only played the demo)
B) a good part of his suggestions simply do not fit into Dominions and that the devs deliberatly decided not to handle things like he likes to see it and finally
C) that some of these 'issues' simply are none.

If he had asked why those suggestion are not in the game. Or what the other players think 'bout them. Or taken part in any discussion here...
But posting a wishlist and coming back >1 year later to issue 'extortionary' (is that the word?) statements ... trollish, at least IMNSHO ...

[dirtywick]

Gandalf Parker said:
should go to bed now before my wife kills me.

Now that's a good point

[Endoperez]

Oh, and only noticed two posts. That's a bit too much, and a third does give a slight "I'm more important than you" feeling. Still no reason to lash out.

[Boron]

JaydedOne said:
For what it's worth, turn processing for massive games in single-player is majorly off-putting and really has me at a point where I refuse to play the single-player game beyond, say, 8-10 players. It's still long processing at that point, but if I'm, say, also playing my PS2 and/or working from home, I can use most of the processing time to do other things. However, it does keep me from completely immersing myself in the game the way I'd like to and really takes away the fun, chaotic elements of a full 17-18 player map.

If there's any way to further streamline/optimize turn processing, that'd be a major wish for me in a patch downt he line.

Yeah the turn generating times are long, but i love big games in SP. Usually i play the full era on glory of gods mp version, so 18-20 AIs. I usually take impossible or mighty AIs.
After turn 40 it takes several minutes for the turn to generate. But because Dom3 runs in window mode this doesn't bother me much, i always do something else then like reading forums and posting or playing another game meanwhile.

I gues that the turn time cannot be speed up much more because the AI builds huge armies and thus it takes a while to calculate the 50+ battles with 100-500 troop armies which occur past turn 40 on a huge map nearly every turn.
So i think the large AI armies cause that slowdown.
But the large AI armies are fun for sp, so the turn times are just a necessary evil probably.

[Foodstamp]

Someone dropped the post count bomb. I got news for ya, post count does not mean anything. I have been lurking these boards forever. Forever, meaning literally for the past 5 years or longer since I found the site googling for a TBS engine or something.

I watched all you guys post through the entire life cycle of dominions 2 without making a post. My point is, post count means nothing.

This guy has some good points, and some bad points IMO...

1) I have mixed emotions about the RMG. I have written an RMG before and I am amazed at how organic illwinter's implementation is. The initial map generation time does not bother me because I know that I am going to be rewarded with a nice long game.

Pretender design on one screen, excellent idea considering you use a set amount of points to make the pretender. Would save a small bit of hastle.

Turn generation is just too slow on this game. It should not take as long as it does. I find myself spending more time surfing the net than making my moves. Not such a big deal for MP players I imagine, but I am primarily a single player guy and it is annoying. The only fix being to play smaller maps with less AI players, which is a let down.

2) This game keeps a team of 2 people, it is a bit unrealistic to ask for state of the art graphics using 3dstudio max or maya ffs. That being said, the castles atleast could be fixed, they are ugly and take up way too much space on the map, covering the nation flag normally.

3) Yeah, a two man company can afford to "pay" a GUI expert to come "clean house" .

4)Your turn report ideas sound good for the most part, most importantly give me a battle report from a storm the castle event or from "so and so was the victim of an assassination attempt."

5)Selling dominions 2 cheaper. I find it weird also that this game series does not seem to follow the laws of economics, atleast from the consumer's perspective. From our side of the field it does seem like some poor business choices have been made. That being said, we as consumers cannot say that with 100% certainty without knowing the full scope of production costs, and other various aspects that go into publishing the game. (Even with those things at an extreme, it is probably still a business flaw because the publisher has not found a way to optimize that process over the years, or found a better cheaper way to implement it).

[Sindai]

Foodstamp said:
Someone dropped the post count bomb. I got news for ya, post count does not mean anything. I have been lurking these boards forever. Forever, meaning literally for the past 5 years or longer since I found the site googling for a TBS engine or something.

I watched all you guys post through the entire life cycle of dominions 2 without making a post. My point is, post count means nothing.

It's a good thing he also explored the content of the three posts or this would be a valid criticism.

I do agree with him about the UI (obviously hiring somebody else would be impractical, but there's plenty of books on UI design out there) and battle reports, plus the inexplicable un-fixedness of a handful of things like siege battle reports.

[curtadams]

Most of the changes would be nice ... but DEAL BREAKERS? Having to wait a few minutes to start a game that will last hours or days? Having to go through, what, four screens to generate a pretender? Seeing an arrow on the map? This is deal breaking? What would serious problems, like gruesome bugs or obvious dominating strategies, merit? Bomb threats to the developers?

[curtadams]

Cainehill said:
But turn processing : yes, it's okay for MP games, at least for non-blitz games. But if the turn processing gets longer and longer as games go on (and more battles take place with larger armies, etc), the SP game may have yet another nail in its coffin.

Frankly, I'm not sure _why_ it processes turns so much more slowly now - I don't see Dom3 doing much more than Dom2 did in going from turn to turn

Probably the spellcasting AI. Man, what an improvement! Casters pitch at the front row of the enemy army - until yours gets close and then they fire one row back. And they sometimes surprise me with spells I wouldn't think useful - but they are. Missle fire has improved, too. That kind of AI takes time and I'm not surprised that battles with a dozen spellcasters and a hundred archers can take, gosh, several seconds.