Blood magic nerfed in dom3? - Page 3

Huzurdaddi · #21 December 21st, 2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Ironhawk said:
No, I disagree. In point of fact, blood slaves are probably EASIER to get now than before.

That's thrilling. Did you actually read my post? I explained *exactly* the costs associated with blood hunting. Here, I'll cut and paste them JUST FOR YOU:

the cost of producing blood slaves is equal to the sum of the following 3 costs:

(1) the cost of reducing the unrest caused by blood hunting, this is commonly, but not always done by setting the tax rate to 0.
(2) the cost of maintaining the blood hunters
(3) the amortized cost of purchasing the blood hunters.

And now *WITH MORE EXPLANATION*:
#2 and #3 are do not vary between Dom2 and Dom3.
#1 has changed.

Thanks.

UninspiredName · #22 December 21st, 2006, 08:41 PM

You leave one thing out of your condescending little explanation: That people will have more money in the first place to foot these bills. You lose more gold, but each single gold matters less. For that reason, it could quite easilly even out before you even factor in the effectively reduced cost of Blood Slaves.

Huzurdaddi · #23 December 21st, 2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

UninspiredName said:
You lose more gold, but each single gold matters less.

Oh my mistake. I did not know that all gold costs were scaled upwards in Dom3. No, no, wait. They were not. A basic unit costs 10 gold in Dom3 just like it costs 10 gold in Dom2.

Each single gold matters the exact same as it did in Dom2. This is the "problem." I put it in quotes since I do not know if this was intentional or not. If it was then fine.

Again, given that blood yeilds scale wrt. gems and not wrt. gold I do not think that this was thought through completely.

Sheap · #24 December 21st, 2006, 09:43 PM

Ironhawk and Uninspired are right (and much more polite). Reducing to the essentials:

* Gold increased in dom3
* Gems didn't increase in dom3
* Blood hunting equation: gold + time + unrest = slaves

Since gold increased and slaves come from gold, slaves are easier to get relative to other types of gems (but harder to get relative to gold because of unrest).

Thus blood magic got stronger in dom3, not weaker, because it should be compared to other forms of magic - not to recruitable troops. Of course blood got weaker compared to recruitable troops, everything did, no one disputes that.

UninspiredName · #25 December 21st, 2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Oh my mistake. I did not know that all gold costs were scaled upwards in Dom3. No, no, wait. They were not. A basic unit costs 10 gold in Dom3 just like it costs 10 gold in Dom2.

Gold costs weren't, but army size was. 20 troops won't get you nearly as far as they did in Dom2. And even then, if troops/defense/buildings (Including labs, which make Blood Hunting easier, by the way) were made easier, saying Blood Magic was made harder while everything else remained the same is an inaccurate simplification.

Valandil · #26 December 21st, 2006, 10:52 PM

Reducing to essential points:

1. There is now more money.
2. Blood hunting is a way of converting MONEY into slaves
3. The exchange rates are the same
4. the cost of blood hunting has increased by a factor of two, since the provinces are twice as valuable
5. this increase in cost is exactly proportional to the increase in money.
6. Gems have not changed in frequency, and are irrespective of gold.
7. therefore, gems have been nerfed in comparison to bloodslaves.

I think at least one of you people will see the flaw here.

Ironhawk · #27 December 21st, 2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Huzurdaddi said:
That's thrilling. Did you actually read my post? I explained *exactly* the costs associated with blood hunting. Here, I'll cut and paste them JUST FOR YOU:

Uhhh... yes, actually I did. I read your post, and then read the entire thread. And just cause I have a different viewpoint than you doesnt give you the right to come off all lordly and condescending. As if no one could possibly disagree with you because there was simply no possibility of you being wrong? Why did you even make a post on a forum if you didnt want feedback? Get a grip!

Huzurdaddi · #28 December 22nd, 2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Sheap said:
Of course blood got weaker compared to recruitable troops, everything did, no one disputes that.

The entire point is that one uses blood *instead* of using recruitable mages/troops. Since to get blood one must *sacrifice* gold. Summons obtained with other gems are *in addition* to troops/mages.

Taqwus · #29 December 22nd, 2006, 01:51 AM

And you spent gold to get those other mages, and to pay them to run around and find sites, and to keep them on the battlefield to cast the battle magic that other paths place far greater reliance on. You also spent money on mages to research spells scattered in up to seven other schools -- and this is more expensive now, since research has been slowed, while blood is much more unified.

Oh, and blood nations will have far fewer expensive mages dying of old age than your average human nation, once they research Boots of Youth.

Endoperez · #30 December 22nd, 2006, 05:37 AM

I agree with Sheap and Valandil - I don't see the problem. Thanks for summing it up so well, I couldn't have done that myself.

However, this discussion raised an interesting point (for a second time in relatively short time): there are no low-level Blood summons for Blood mages/commanders with lots of undead leadership. Would Blood 3 (research), B2 (magic), 21 slaves for a B1 lawyer demon be all right? If he needs a downside, causing some unrest or something would probably be possible. He'd have Undead leadership 40, +5 from Blood.