OT: Building a new box

[Phoenix-D]

Keep in mind if you get 4 GB of RAM Windows will only address about 3.2 GB. This applies to both Vista and XP.

[Fyron]

Possum said:
No, no, no onboard sound, thank you.

I'll get the best sound card Creative Labs sells, short of the musician-equipment ones. Having used an Audigy2 for the last 3 years, I'm spoiled!

In terms of audio fidelity, creative cards are not much better than on-board chipsets. Also, Creative doesn't make anything that is really appropriate to label as "musician-equipment."

[PvK]

I wasn't referring to performance problems, but deliberate sabotage of the audio/visual quality when corporate-"owned" content in detected... which is required for any device to be allowed to run under Vista.

[Will]

IF, have you actually used any integrated sound recently? There isn't much of a point in getting a seperate card anymore, as most boards will support 7.1 surround no problem, with connections for both 1/8" jacks for "computer speakers" (gonna sound not-so-good no matter where the signal comes from) and either coaxial or optical (or both) S/PDIF for connection to an amplifier for "real speakers". The audio quality is no different between onboard and a seperate PCI card.

It *USED* to be true that you wanted to pay a little extra for a sound card because it was on the same bus as the integrated modem, however, there aren't many system boards that I have seen recently that even bother with modems anymore. The only reason I can think of to buy a seperate soundcard is if:
A) you have an older systemboard or one that does not have adequate sound hardware (or any sound hardware, for that matter)
or
B) you are building a system to do sound recording approaching studio-quality, in which case you probably will want something a little pricier, with an external box connecting to the card with multiple line-ins for mixing.

Anyway, if you're looking for real sound quality, you aren't going to get it from a $30 sound card. Shell out the cash for shielded speakers, a spool of speaker wire (14 gauge is safe for most home sound systems, 12 if you're wiring all through the house, although I know some audio nuts who insist on 10 gauge for a 6-ft connection), and a good amplifier/reciever.

[Fyron]

Unless there are motherboards that integrate an Envy24 chipset (which would be awesome), you can still get improved fidelity from a separate sound card... Just having 7.1 channel support and having a coaxial/optical jack is irrelevant if the audio chipset is not very good. Ports != quality. Being on the same bus as the modem is also not particularly relevant, especially if you never used a modem; no longer having a modem doesn't automagically make the audio chipset better technology.

The Chaintech AV 710 is not quite as good as the more expensive Envy24 chipset cards (eg: m-audio revolution), certainly, but it beats integrated and Creative chipsets. I think you underestimate the Chaintech though... I seem to get real sound quality from my $20 Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (an older envy24 budget card) connected to my stereo speakers. Certainly the audio chipset is only one component involved, but it doesn't hurt to go for the best..

For reference, if you want to approach studio-quality recording, you will probably want something from E-mu, not Creative.

Anyways, the point was that you can get better quality sound for less money than buying a Creative card. Or you could get much better quality for about the same money. If you are happy with your integrated chipset, then by all means, don't throw money away on separate cards.

[Will]

Imperator Fyron said:
Anyways, the point was that you can get better quality sound for less money than buying a Creative card. Or you could get much better quality for about the same money. If you are happy with your integrated chipset, then by all means, don't throw money away on separate cards.

I was actually refering to the earlier post saying spend $30 and 'not subject yourself to onboard sound'. There do exist systemboards that have integrated audio chipsets that are just as good as PCI card audio. I know, for example, that Intel's systemboards have audio chipsets that sample at 192kHz/32-bit. Wikipedia page for Envy24 says it is up to 192kHz/24-bit. I know there exist soundcards that are even better than that, but that was your example. My point is, it is not a given that you need to get a seperate soundcard anymore, and more than likely, you will get better sound quality by getting better speakers. As a comparison, there's no point in getting dual SLI cards if your monitor is an old CRT with max resolution of 800x600. Or, if you drive a Ford Pinto, there's no point in putting 91 octane in it insead of 87. And, if you have cheap bundled computer speakers, there's no point in getting better audio chipsets, it's gonna be crappy either way.

--edit: I should also note I'm not against soundcards. My current main system has a 5.1 surround card made by Maya (not sure if they're still in business). It's hooked up with a "high-end" set of computer speakers, 90W 5.1 setup from altec lansing. I use the soundcard because I have a board that is 4 years old and has only AC97 codec w/ 3x 1/8" jacks (line out, line in, mic), stereo sound. I'm most likely building a new system in late spring/early summer, and it's not getting a sound card until I get a proper speaker setup for it, and even then, I'm not getting a sound card unless I determine that the onboard isn't adequate. Since I'm going for very high-end boards, it's likely the sound will be fine compared to seperate cards.

[Fyron]

I don't think there is any point to the extra gradations of 32 bit over 24 bit for sound... E-mu external audio devices don't bother going 32-bit, and they are very highly regarded. Even Creative sticks with 24 bits for their audigy xi-fi stuff. 32-bit appears to be snake oil.

You will get better sound quality with better speakers (esp. by going with real speakers and not PC speakers). You will get better sound quality with better chipsets. You will get better quality with both. Speakers certainly make more of a difference, but that doesn't mean a better sound card will be pointless.

[Possum]

Fyron, I take vigorous exception to your comments slamming Creative.

As far as speakers, the output from my Audigy2 goes into my JVC stereo amplifier, and thence to a pair of 25-year old studio monitors with 15" woofers. I grant you that speaker technology has made huge advances since my speakers were new, but the old ways do still work

Oh, and a (hopefully) amusing anecdote about these speakers. One time back about 10 years I noticed the sound quality on the left speaker had fallen off quite a bit. Checking wires revealed nothing to blame it on. Finally I snapped the cover off, looked inside carefully, and found that a mouse had built himself/herself a nest inside. Was this rodent DEAF? Who knows...

[Renegade 13]

Since we're on the topic of sound and speakers...

I've got a couple ~25 year old speakers, massive things, each connected to the stereo with about 15 feet of wiring. Every once in a while, the left speaker will halfways cut out, put out a lot of static, and then for no apparent reason, fix itself. Any ideas what the problem could be?

[Fyron]

Creative makes mid-range quality equipment that they bill as top of the line. What can I say?