Superheroes dominating Dominions 3 ? - Page 3

KissBlade · #21 February 23rd, 2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

calmon said:
Gems are very important in late game. Nevertheless normally you can't 'swim enough' in gold. A nation with very good non-capital mages and lots of castles build 20-30 national mages a turn in late game.

Growth is clearly an middle/late game invest but there also possibilies to improve your early game too.

However what i mean to say is that death 3 is good but its not a no-brainer.
The nearly no-brainer for me is sloth 3
I would always go for sloth 3 before death 3 with most of the nations (even the resource haevy nations, just build a good combat pretender here).

I don't mind sloth 3 as much as death 3. Any nation can get away with sloth 3 as you said. This for me is "balanced" since basically all players start with the same situation. Death 3 I mind because it hampers old age nations way more than non old age nations. I guess a better way to put this would be, I dislike the scale because some nations don't have the "choice" to take it while others do. This to me is the imbalance.

Edi · #22 February 23rd, 2007, 01:45 PM

That's a frankly ridiculous notion. If every nation was supposed to be able to use the exact same things, then they might as well have the same units too.

A nation that can't tale Death 3 can take some other negative scale at 3 and it will hamper them less. Anyone who takes death scales deserves everything evil and bad that comes from it. I only play large maps and long games anyway, and death 3 in those tends to be just a protracted suicide.

There is also the matter that some nations just suit some people's play style far better than others. I get fairly good results with Ulm, Abysia and a couple of others and I absolutely, positively suck when playing some others because they don't fit me or I don't fit them.

Edi

KissBlade · #23 February 23rd, 2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Edi said:
That's a frankly ridiculous notion. If every nation was supposed to be able to use the exact same things, then they might as well have the same units too.

A nation that can't tale Death 3 can take some other negative scale at 3 and it will hamper them less. Anyone who takes death scales deserves everything evil and bad that comes from it. I only play large maps and long games anyway, and death 3 in those tends to be just a protracted suicide.

There is also the matter that some nations just suit some people's play style far better than others. I get fairly good results with Ulm, Abysia and a couple of others and I absolutely, positively suck when playing some others because they don't fit me or I don't fit them.

Edi

I'll have to disagree with you then. Though if I recall you're the one who plays the crazy Faerun sized games? In which case, I suppose then I'll go growth over death. But those super huge games rarely finds players that can hold that attention span from my experience. In more modestly sized games decided around turn 80-100, I just don't find the death scale holding me back that much. (unless I have old age mages of course)

Also I'm not sure I get the point of your first statement. How does "all nations should be able to get away with same scales" factor into "all nations might as well have same units"?

Edi · #24 February 23rd, 2007, 02:15 PM

I don't mind having some handicaps for different nations scale-wise, for me it doesn't matter that much. Preferences vary, I suppose. I'd be unlikely to take death even in small games, I dislike it that much.

I suppose the same units things could be construed as a slippery slope, but it's what comes to my mind first when I hear people going "I can do A with nation 1, therefore I should also be able to do A with nations 2...13547 as well."

Edi

merlinme · #25 February 23rd, 2007, 02:19 PM

I agree with Edi on this one, if all nations were able to take the same scales, then if there was one best scale strategy for one nation, it would be the best scale strategy for all nations; i.e. no variation. Which would take a lot of the fun out of the game.

It's not as bad as them all having the same units, but it's still about how much variation in play you get from playing different nations.

Shovah32 · #26 February 23rd, 2007, 02:47 PM

Its just the fact that many nations without old mages can basically get free points, this can be made worse by nations with a huge scale preference(ie EA abysia without building anathemant dragons or warlocks,you can take heat3 death3 for ALOT of free points without too much damage)

Gandalf Parker · #27 February 23rd, 2007, 03:08 PM

That would be hard to balance so that everyone can make sense with all scale choices.
I think that every scale has nations that make it logical, or at least a tactic to keep in mind, for any extreme high and low of a scale. Death/growth has already been discussed and heat/cold are obvious. Pangaea can do interesting things with sloth 3, chaos 3. Tien Chi can do things with unluck 3. Ulm with non-magic 3.

Edi · #28 February 23rd, 2007, 03:09 PM

I liked how there were certain scales requirements for certain national themes in Dom2. When all those different themes were turned into nations in Dom3, the scales requirements vanished, which takes quite a bit of flavor out of the thematic aspect.

Edi

FrankTrollman · #29 February 23rd, 2007, 03:27 PM

Deleted.

KissBlade · #30 February 23rd, 2007, 04:40 PM

I don't see where anyone mentioned "very short games". Perhaps you're gasping because you're making an exaggerated point in attempt to refute something. Especially because if all you do is /wait/ when someone has death scales than I really hope you don't let them get a jump start with their extra points and take the extra provinces to fuel their extra gem income AND regular income just because of the extra provinces. I don't think I've EVER heard of anyone's argument going, "HMM... he has DEATH SCALES, maybe I'll just wait him out!" To attempt to use that "strategy" against someone isn't to say they're clever, it's to say they're idiots.

I mean you have to really ask yourself this, are you arguing against balance or are you arguing against change? Because let's face it, currently the scales in base are just not balanced, neither are some pretender choices. How often do you start a pretender and the first thing you do is take Order 3?