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Meglobob said:
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Foodstamp said:
To truly excel at Multiplayer seems to require the following.
Choose Helheim at the nation select screen.
Roll over nearest opponent if you can do so swiftly without compromising research and progress.
Research and cast a gem producing spell.
Research and cast forge of the Ancients.
Forge as many of the unique items as you can.
Research and cast as many of the king/queen elemental spells you can.
Create as many banelords as possible.
Raid with glamour units and squash armies with Banelords and equipped elementals.
Ally with 1 sea nation.
Done.
Before anyone gets upset, this post is more fact than farce. I am in one game where the Helheim player is dominating, and this seemed to be his path, except that he squashed two nearby players early with Helherdings.
In two more of my games, it is a bit early, but the spells have been cast in pretty much the same order as listed above. I am playing a water nation in both those games and I have been approached by Helheim in both games with peace agreements. In one of the games I am touching Helheim's border, in another game, I have no idea where Helheim is so I am thinking this has something to do with the Helheim victory formula  .
Btw, this is 3 different players playing Helheim the exact same way.
I did not mean for this to become a Helheim rant, but I am guessing if you followed this same strategy with Helheim in MP, you should be successful right out of the gate in your MP play. If three different people in games I am currently playing are using this exact same strategy, there must be something to it.
Another observation. I used to wonder why the race for the unique artifacts was so important, it seemed like you could focus on other things. Now I understand the real reason. At the end of the game, the stronger nations are pretty much on even grounds. If the players are of comparable skill level, the only advantage one player will have over the other is Unique artifacts and summons. That is probably why the race to grab up all the artifacts is so important beyond just having really cool items.
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I would like to agree with Foodstamp 100%.
This is currently my experience of MP at the moment and if it continues why I will stop playing any future MP's which have Helheim in them!
A ABC guide to playing Helheim has been developed which barring virtually all other nations allying against Helheim is very likely to result in a Helheim victory.
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Well, as the Helheim player in question, I can't help but agree. My previous MP experience was/is with Ulm and Abysia (both MA), and while I dare say I didn't do badly with them, playing Helheim feels like a totally different ballgame.
It's not even about the dual-blessed helhirding, (though I'm sure they're formidable) as I'm playing with the human rainbow pretender that was discouraged earlier in this thread (I have to say that so far in my limited experience I'm liking them on big, magic-rich maps though) but the nation just has so much going for them...
* Unparalelled expansion ability. Obviously dual blessed Helhirding will tear through anything, but even with the modest bless I was playing with (4f4w - and 4a, but the bless was not the reason I had air) you can take on prity much any independents or early game armies with minimal losses.
* Research: with decently priced mages, and the ability to forge quills, skull mentors
and lightless lanterns, you might not be the nr.1 research nation in the game, but there's nothing stopping you from entering a research race if you're so inclined.
* Mid-game power: Once the research starts ticking in, even your fabulous glamour boys won't win your battles single-handedly anymore, but there's no need to worry. With the ability to cast blade wind, magma eruption, shadow blast and skellie spam, Svartalfs don't lack for killing power. With thugable commanders, and the ability to summon the various undead thugs you have another option at your disposal at this stage of the game.
* Late game: With the ability to get 3A and 4D on your recruitable commanders you have a nice start in two of the powerful late-game magic paths. If you plan for a way to get air boosters (hence the 4A on my pretender, though there are other, less certain ways) you're set in both schools. You do lack astral though. (and the blood is quite marginal) All in all you might not have the greatest late-game potential of the game right out of the box, but you do have some starting options, and you can work them into your long-term planning.
*unparallelled mobility (well, unparallelled until late game astral mass teleportation at least), stealth,
powerful raiding ability, allowing you to take control of the situation. You fight when you want, where you want. On your terms. This so far is actually the greatest difference to my Ulm and Abysia games, where I was stuck with my mapmove one armies.
Now, all the above wasn't meant as a discussion of Helheim (has been done enough in other threads, really), but to show you how a particular nation deals with the different phases/areas of the game. Expansion, Research, Mid-game, Late-game, and Mobility/Raiding. Obviously you can't be equally strong in all areas, but at least keep them in mind when developping your strategy. If you're weak in an area, try to find ways to compensate.
The importance of the Mobility/Raiding part was a lesson I (probably) learned too late to win my previous games. Neither of these two nations excel at this part of the game. Things I did, or should have done, or thought about too late, to try and compensate include:
* Outguess your oponent so he attacks a defended province, and gets his backside handed to him... Easier said than done obviously.
* Equip/recruit/summon some flying/stealthy stuff of your own. Abyssian demonbred with a devil squad, any kind of thug/sc equiped with boots of flying (or stymphalian wings), Draconians... even if not very powerful they can at least be enough to recapture the provinces your enemy took. Later in the game a squad of equiped thugs/SC's can take out many armies. There also are a couple of stealthy summons. A couple of ghosts led by a druid or a spectre might not be terribly impressive, but they can do
something at least mildly annoying. And anything that keeps your enemy reacting to what you're doing is good. Thugs/SC with astral or air (or death, or nature, but that's more expensive in both research and gems) can attack any province on the map. Just be aware they can't teleport away again without lab... They can also teleport on top of that annoying raiding party that's been troubling you. Or on top of that annoying teleporting guy that just took out your raiding party. Or on top of that annoying teleporting guy that teleported on top of the teleporting guy you used to take out the annoying raiding party. Or... erm... you know
* Assessinate the leaders of raiding/flying squads, leaving the troops stranded in the middle of your territory. Easier with assessin spells, but you might try the outgessing trick with regular assessins too. Does not work on stealthy troops though. (As I found out to my great regret
)
* If you're not very strong in the raiding department (or even if you are) You can substitute long range attack spells for your raiding parties. Ghost Riders (6D) and Send Horror (3B4S) both have steep path requirements, but if you have a way to cast them (preferably with a scout in place to actually capture the province once the defenders are eliminated), they're awesome. After being on the receiving end of a Ghost Riding barrage taking anywhere between 6 and 12 provinces
per turn I'm not sure I'll ever be able to sleep again.
On the other hand, I have yet to see Call of the Winds be succesfully used in this way. It's a great spell to get a flying commander, or patrolling troops, but I can only imagine how many castings you need to take out even moderatly adequate PD. Once it was cast at a province of mine where I had forgotten to improve the PD past one, and even then the birds just fled.
... pant, pant...
See? This is the reason why I usually refrain from discussing tactical stuff, once I start writing I can't seem to stop...
Ah, well. Two more
short points:
* Having many cool artifacts is fun, no doubt about it. But I think generally speaking the best ones aren't the cool and flashy ones, but the mundane pathboosting items. In the game in question I managed to grab
Sceptre of Dark Regency 3D booster, which allowed me to get to 8D, which gave me access to Tartarians (7 is enough, but wasn't otherwise atainable to me) Even better, getting
Dimensional Rod enabled me to forge Rings of sorcery (with independen 2S mages, or my 2S pretender), which in turn enebled me to forge rings of wizardry. Which again gave me a way to cast Tartarians. (4D commander with Skull Staff, Skull Face, and Ring of Sorcery. Obviously that's a lot of gems, and I don't have 17 of those running around, but it does give me another option again. The Ring of Wizardry again helped in summoning Fire and Water Kings/Queens which would otherwise only have been possible with my pretender. (though I was surprised no other nation had gotten them by that point, but hey, I'm not complaining) Without the Ring of Sorcery I also wouldn't have been able to boost a Lizard Shaman to the 3N1S needed to forge a Moonvie Bracelet And so on and so on. Now I will say this was not all meticulously planned out beforehand, but if I hadn't managed to get those booster items first my position wouldn't have been nearly so strong now.
* I never cast Forge of the Ancients in that game. I did want too, but I didn't have nearly enough earth income.
Re: Basic Multiplayer tips wanted
Hexxagon Champion!
. In the two other games the Helheim player actually has FOTA up.
Linear Mode
