MP guide to MA/LA R'lyeh

[Evilhomer]

It gets 2 misc slots. As for using it as an SC the lack of slots combined with its low protection and low defense makes it a bit unsuited (maybe if you went a bit crazy and gave it some magic on top). It is a good summon but on the other hand it is level 9 and at that point there are several other viable choices to spend astral gems on as rlyeh. I tend to put my astral into gem wishes most often at that point, but the abomination is an alternative for sure.

[Shovah32]

Late in the game i like to invest in atleast a couple of abominations. Sending a few of them into battle with your army(and a mage to boost your troops protection) can add a big punch due to their gaze of death. They can also soak up fire pretty well and draw fire away from SCs and thugs.

[ologm]

Evilhomer said:
Dreams of R'lyeh: (Thaum 6, needs s4 to cast cost is 4s.) Haven't been able to play around with this much, but baically it works like a mind hunt with no risk of getting feebleminded and with increased cost to cast.

It acts as an assassination attempt in the void. In the void non void creatures get halfed attack, defense and resistance.
Not much can stand up one-on-one against a 9 astral void lurker with its resistance halfed.

[Baalz]

I've been doing a bunch of R'yleh lately and was planning on putting something like this together so here are a couple of my thoughts – I won’t repeat what Homer’s already covered (great job!), but there are a couple of my favorite things that didn’t get mentioned.

A guide to R'yleh needs a discussion of one of the central aspects of being R'yleh – being aquatic. This may seem too obvious to even mention, but there are a couple of implications with are not as obvious and lend themselves to some powerful strategies, and also some underwater strategies which R’yleh is much better suited for than other underwater nations. Other water nations are going to generally default to war with you, and indeed you’ll generally have a good motive to take out the other water nations as fast as possible, but if there are large bodies of water allying with another underwater province can prove to be a powerful move. The big thing is almost none of the land nations are going to be eager to pick a fight in the water any time before late game. Consequently, you have a powerful negotiation tool which often means you don’t need to sign NAPs with any of your land neighbors which will be important in a bit.

What you should do is focus on establishing your underwater territories as rapidly as possible, but avoid taking many land provinces early on. The key to remember is the land nations will often see any move to land to be very aggressive on your part even if you’re just attacking indies. You also give up your best defense, your water. In general, only take island provinces, or perhaps isolated land masses which you can defend from land attack by holding only a single province. Of course this is just a rule of thumb, so use your own judgment.

Fighting between the water nations is much like playing many other nations, and Homer has covered the basics (though I personally value the national troops a bit differently). As he mentions, having an awake SC pretender helps greatly (I’m a fan of the ancient kraken), and having a good gold flow is essential. When I find it gets interesting is once you’ve secured your watery kingdom, either through conquest or alliance and start eyeing your first major land campaign. At this point you should have a long shore border, a good gold and gem income (thanks to voice of tiamat) and several neighbors which you have no NAP with.

Now is when the true beauty of R’yleh begins to shine – freedom. Watch for your opportunity – which of your neighbors is on the losing side of a war? Watch the score graphs (if enabled), use astral windows (or it’s not a bad idea to forge a couple stone spheres), watch the forums and bide your time. Remember, half your opportunity is going to be swooping in to aid somebody already in a war, so make sure you leverage this into the groundwork for future alliances and trading partners.

Now, another great thing about R’yleh is the abundance of fairly stout astral mages (even more so with EA R’yleh…but that would be another thread). This expands upon the freedom theme – pairs of your starspawn can teleport anywhere and take out most PD with the right equipment and script (one idea is to give them bottles of water elementals, script body ethereal then falling frost X4, you get the idea). This can easily be followed up by the construction of a laboratory and the gatewaying in of your real armies. So, as you’re looking for opportunities use your scrying and negotiation and don’t confine yourself to nations bordering the water – there is a lot of joy in attacking somebody who has no way to attack you back and the best they can hope for is to repulse your attack. Use intel from your newly found allies (who will be overjoyed to have you join them in a fight they’re already bogged down in), and teleport into the rear, lightly held territories. Heck, you can likely even get some bribes to join the winning side of a war, or just rent out your Mind Hunter’s services to the right bidder.

Speaking of which, R’yleh is the poster child for some of the offensive rituals, namely Mind Hunt and Vengence of the Dead. You’ll have many mages capable of casting each, and both benefit from penetration boosting. Eyes of the Void and Spell Foci are no brainers, but you’ll also want to secure rune smashers if possible. Trade if you can, but if not you’ll likely have a modest fire gem income from voice of Tiamat with absolutely no fire mages, so don’t be afraid to empower one of your starspawn twice and set him to forging them – it’s not a terrible investment for 80 gems. Because of the danger of going feebleminded while casting mind hunt you’ll want to get some way to cure afflictions, the two easiest being the fairy queens or the chalice, both of which are attainable through a slave mage with a nature random. Once you get your artillery brigade set up, it’s a truly awesome apparatus against anyone without a lot of astral mages. SCs will be unable to go anywhere unescorted, hit and run raiders will not be a problem, spies have no chance of sowing unrest, and even larger armies can be split up as you take out some of the commanders leading troops, leaving others to follow their orders. Again, use your scrying to find juicy targets away from the front line once your opponents start expecting it.

So, for me, playing R’yleh is defined by two things 1) leveraging your underwater defensive advantage and 2) a handful of spells: voice of Tiamat, teleport, mind hunt/vengeance of the dead. It’s all about freedom, mobility, and surprise because against an evenly skilled opponent you’re likely not going to be able to hold your own on the ground in a straight fight. R’yleh is a submarine, keep your opponents guessing as to where you’re going to surface next. You should have a great gem income, very good research and a lot of magic versatility.

[Evilhomer]

Thanks for the feedback baalz. I agree on most of what you have said but I will give some feedback on some parts where our opinions differ.

So, as you´re looking for opportunities use your scrying and negotiation and don’t confine yourself to nations bordering the water – there is a lot of joy in attacking somebody who has no way to attack you back and the best they can hope for is to repulse your attack. Use intel from your newly found allies (who will be overjoyed to have you join them in a fight they’re already bogged down in), and teleport into the rear, lightly held territories. Heck, you can likely even get some bribes to join the winning side of a war, or just rent out your Mind Hunter’s services to the right bidder.

Why you want to pick a fight with someone that doesn't border you im unsure about. Basically rlyeh depends on a large number of mages and troops to be involved in a campaign, else the campaign will just fail - and you will have wasted alot of money and gems (meanwhile other nation elsewhere has grown stronger). If you wish to win such a campaign you usually need to involve a lot of starspawns (30+ maybe) and troops in the thousands (well at least as LA rlyeh), to gate and teleport that in will cost you alot of astral gems. And even if that succeds you have now efficiently separted your kingdom into 2 parts that cannot support each other, seldom a good idea. The only reason why you want to do this is if you are bribed (and then you are going in there to hurt the guy not really to keep any lands) or if someone is about to win the game and your hands are forced. In my opinion you should expand taking down weak opponents or those that are a threat to you (and then you might want an allie or two to help you), and you should try to expand in a manner that gives you as few fronts to guard as possible (this means setting up NAP with nations you aren't intending to expand into).

So, for me, playing R’yleh is defined by two things 1) leveraging your underwater defensive advantage and 2) a handful of spells: voice of Tiamat, teleport, mind hunt/vengeance of the dead. It’s all about freedom, mobility, and surprise because against an evenly skilled opponent you’re likely not going to be able to hold your own on the ground in a straight fight. R’yleh is a submarine, keep your opponents guessing as to where you’re going to surface next. You should have a great gem income, very good research and a lot of magic versatility.

There are obviously different ways to play and enjoy rlyeh. You seem to employ a bit of hit and run tactics (nothing wrong in that) but I really would say that rlyeh can stand their ground against most land nations (when they get access to some nice magic). The key is communions and buff spells like darkness for your chaff backed up with large numbers of starspawns spamming magic in the form of for example nether darts. (on my handfull of spells i would put: voice of tiamat, nether darts, communion master/slave and darkness).

[BigDisAwesome]

Very nice guide Evilhomer. I'm kinda scared of being next to you in the 62 player game now...

[Salamander8]

I'd add that I have had decent results with MA R'Lyeh landside. Much in the way that Evilhomer does (although I need to work on my magic use to improve it even more). EA R'Lyeh is another story, but that's for another thread. The use of the excellent starspawn mages, lots of chaff troops, and some of the lovely void gate summons, combine into a very effective war machine. Blocks of Lobo Guards and the Hybrid freespawns, backed up by higher-quality melee groups (like Greater Othernesses and Formless spawns as examples), with Illithids and Vastnesses as artillery, all led by Starspawn mages and Illithid Lords (with decent items) make an impressive landward military.

[Baalz]

This is why I like guides like this, even when you're experienced with a race it's eye opening to see how other people play them well. Just like I haven't yet really worked an effective big army land game yet(never thought to use darkness and really big buffs for the lobo guards) I think you'd be surprised with how effective a teleportation offensive can be, I've deployed it very effectively against some good opponents. The thing you have to keep in mind is you're not trying to drop an overwhelming force on a well prepared opponent, you're waiting on an opportunity to hit somebody when they'll have a hard time responding effectively (I really like the submarine analogy). The beauty of it is you can drop on absolutely anybody at their weakest moment. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly better if your opportunity comes along your long coast but there is almost always (on large games) a war going on somewhere which will be quickly decided if you jump into the fray and if you play your cards right you not only gain several lightly defended territories, you also make an ally who goes on to finish your mutual enemy and make sure he never does take those territories back. Teleportation and Gateway I find are surprisingly economical, you shouldn't have a problem dropping 10-20 starspawn for an initial attack (2-3 per province, make sure you target just PD), then several (plus an army or two gatewaying) every turn thereafter. I find astral pearls are seldom the limiting factor when I do this unless I'm also trying to aggressively Mind Hunt at the same time.

[Hugh Manatee]

I like to use the Illithid troops and anti archers. I got kinda lucky and summoned 3 of the giant blob monsters(greater otherness?) in 1 go, and set them, and a bunch of the freebie nut bag troops out front set to charge. Then I set up a line of the meteorite guards, slave guards, lobos, the blue fish guys and what not on the far north and south set to Hold and Attack the rear. The Illithid line is set up behind this, set to fire on archers, and well, they do. Numerically superior archers and indies get rolled while firing at the chaff(which doesn't seem to take many losses)while the artillery line bakes everything in it's path. By the tume the blobbies and the wack bag troops actually clash with the main body of the enemies, they're running scared or dropping like flies.

What I want to know is whats a good thug or SC build for the Illithid commander, or the traitor prince, mine seem to get rolled real easy.

[Sleet]

Newbie here.. these types of guides and insight are GOLD. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif[/img]

Thanks Evilhomer!