Why isn't X ethereal?

[Shovah32]

Unless the player doesn't have a really strong dominion and is using their flying well by attacking more than just provinces next to his own.
And once you hit the enemy once or twice, it gets very hard to use vampires out of your own territory - although I do love the little guys(particularly with LA Ulm).

[Sombre]

I think you can cite a myth to support just about anything regarding vampires. It depends which myths we're following and how we apply them in the game.

For example: Regarding prot 20 vs the myth of the stake in the heart - most of the time the staking is supposed to be done to a prone vampire body, one sleeping or who has already been incapacitated. Therefore a critical hit, perhaps against an unconscious foe. Therefore one that bypasses protection.

I think most of us agree that the vampire thrall summon is underpowered. You can fix this by making it cheaper, making it easier to cast, making it summon more vamps or by improving the vamps in some way. I personally think vampire thralls should be better, because vampires (even thralls)are generally regarded as dangerous, strong and resilient. They aren't in the game. They lose to light infantry, pretty much. So natural prot increase would help in that regard.

[Endoperez]

So would Mistform, etherealness, increased stats and many, many other things. Any way, I could see a prot increase, but not all the way to 20. That's just... strange.

[Shovah32]

What about 15 protection? Would give them a reasonable resistance to normal weapons, but its far from overpowering.

[Juzza]

15 sounds alright to me, I say we add that or something similar to the wishlist!!

[Endoperez]

Adding protection sounds like something that's done in mods. If Johan or Kristoffer played MP, summoned hundreds of vampires and found out first-hand that they suck, they'd probably come up with a new mechanic to give them more vampire-like buff, like they made them unable to enter water when Vampire Queen was nerfed.


Also, you shouldn't just decide that 15 prot is fine. It should be tested before you decide it's good to go. Even if it "sounds right", it can be too good when combined with flying and lifedrain.

[Twan]

Considering most versions of their myth, werewolves should be "ethereal" far more than vampires, as ethereal = resistant against normal weapons (and 25% of having a silver weapon already seem a big chance for a militia). A stake looks far easier to find.

edit : a cool ability to add for both vampires/werewolves/and some other powerful undeads or void creatures would be #nwimmortality : if killed by normal weapons / mundane dammage (only) the unit is immortal (eventually even out of dominion), but killed by magical weapons, spells or other kinds of dammage it remains dead (then a #silverweapon tag may be added also, making a weapon able to kill these units without having the to hit bonus and ability to hit ethearal beings of a magical one) - but of course this kind of restricted immortality is probably very hard to implement

[Juzza]

Twan, that is an absolutely brilliant idea!!! you should be knighted for that!! the normal weapons thing I'm talking about, not the silver weapons, I don't think anything has silver weapons, but it seems feesable to code into dom 3 and is frankly a great idea and I can for see alot of uses in mods for such a command!!