Mists of deception make my 8 Marble Oracle dead?

[Twan]

MaxWilson said:
IIRC there's no mod command to give battlefield enchantments a duration, so that's not really an option. Modding != hacking. You have to work within the constraints of the options JK provides.

-Max

It's actually possible to recreate the spell with limited duration via mod commands ! I just figured it and I think I have the beginning of a solution for a definitive fix by mod.

I first tested #effect 5081 to make the battlefield enchantment last 5 rounds (adding x000 -with x < 10- to an effect make it a cloud with duration of x round), but if the spell is displayed with "5 round duration", it doesn't work for BE.

But, it's possible to create a cloud with limited duration summoning units each round, with the effect x001.

So I've created a spell making a summoning cloud on 5% of the battlefield, with a duration of 3 rounds, one ghost wolf appearing per round in each square, and it works. Creatures don't disappear after 3 rounds but the clouds disappear and stop to summon more then battle ends normally.

It's then possible to add mist as a secondary effect (using nextspell) , or spells summoning other creatures as nextspells.

The only problem is actually : as the spell is no longer a battlefield enchant mages can chain cast it (= really huge ghost wolves army if clouds cover half the battlefield).

Perhaps a workaround can be found using Mist (BE) as the primary effect of the spell, and the summoning clouds in nextspell, so the mages don't recast the spell.

[DonCorazon]

calmon said:
If the devs can't fix this easily they should think about removing the entire spell in the next patch.

I can't remeber any other spell/bug which causes so much trouble and unnecessary insulting disscussions.

Sure a mod would do it too but it shouldn't the way such gamebreaking bugs/exploit are handled.
I want to discuss about using good and funny mods and not to use a bug fix mod every time i start a game.

I agree - this spell and the ensuing arguments has led at least one person to quit the game. Not worth the hassle IMHO.

[Twan]

I now have a fix true to the spirit of the spell : it summons 3 kinds of phantom creatures, with reasonable number of effects per round (without the bug, MoD was really a weak spell), and has a limited duration of 9 rounds instead of the perpetual effect (file in mod forum).

[Aezeal]

No offence but to "keep true to the spirit of the spell" wouldn't it be best to just let it be the same (maybe weak but there are more weak spells) and just let it end after say 40 turns.. that gives 10 turns before the retreat etc

[Twan]

The maximum number of rounds for a spell duration is 9.

#effect mod command
x = battle spell
100x to 900x = "cloud" of spell x with one to nine rounds duration
1000x = ritual version of spell x

Then the number of effects of vanilla MoD is the number of rounds x mage level (with unlimited number of rounds, but usually opponent is routed at some point)

My number of effect for 9 rounds is 9 x ((3 x mage level) + 2) = 27 x mage level + 18.

So number of effects of my version is about the same as a 30 rounds long old MoD spell, it's just concentrated in a shorter duration.

A 30 or 40 rounds MoD, even with just one effect / round, would anyway be far more powerful because the bugged way this kind of spell works make its duration = minimum battle duration if the caster retreats (and in a 40 rounds long fight some spells like Wrathfull Skies or fatigue BE can be devastating).

I find 9 rounds a good medium (between making MoD an instant or keeping it as it was), allowing to use MoD to make battles longer but not too much, so even the combo with other BE can be allowed.

[Micah]

Thanks Twan, that sounds awesome.

[Zeldor]

9 turns seems to be completely enough for that. Battles either end quite fast [+ some turns to finish that fight] or are really dragged and turn limit comes.

[Edi]

I have suggested in the beta forum that a change like this be taken into consideration for the next patch, at least for the interim. We shall see what Johan and Kristoffer say to this. Having a MoD that lasts 9, 12 or 15 rounds or something like that should be effectively the same as the original intention with the bonus of not being exploitable.

[MaxWilson]

Well, Twan's mod at least may be exploitable in a different way, in that it still lasts for 9 rounds even if the casting mage dies. A defender could do Mists of Deception and Wrathful Skies and Flame Storm all on round 1, and the attacker can't stop it even if he does Rain of Stones x50 on his own round 1--no matter what, the attacker is going to take 9 (or 12 or 15) rounds of painful BEs.

(I may be misunderstanding Twan's mod--I haven't run it--but it believe it creates clouds on the battlefield, each of which produces warriors each round. As I understand it, these clouds will keep producing warriors even if everybody else is dead, so the battle won't end. It's a fine mod and less exploitable than the original, but there are still limitations.)

-Max

[Twan]

Yes the best system would be the spell ending when the mage leaves, like it was supposed to be (...and a good initiative system instead of defender always cast first).

On the other hand it's a level 8 spell, supposed to be powerful and increasing battle duration may be seen as a part of its interest (9 rounds of any BE + MoD is not really more powerful than other mass spells a defender can cast before the attacker plays - the attacker can use warriors of muspellheim or something to reduce the effects of the second spell, when he can really do nothing to counter instants like rain of stones or mass enslave).