EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom

[Baalz]

Oh no, the steel warriors don't come close to justifying the E9 blessing. What justifies it is the shamans who are not only your thugs but also the teeth in your armies. If you're already going to E8 it's not *that* much more to go to E9, which makes those thugs much tougher and makes your combat mages more likely than not to ignore a stray arrow even without ironskin. Since I suggest using your mages pretty aggressively (spamming charm from the front line, etc.) it seems a prudent investment. Stacking on the steel warriors is a very tasty bonus which has great synergy.

If I was taking a bless primarily for the steel warriors I'd probably look more at a water/blood blessing to maximize damage output since that's the niche you're using them for.

[WraithLord]

What's the lab size anyway?- Isn't that 30?

Another great guide.

Curiously, I have an SP game that I started a few months ago the follows very similar lines
The blessed SW and dirt cheap shaman thugs are way too much for the AI to handle, even on Faeron adventure, so I naturally lost interest.

[Wrana]

Thank you very much for another excellent guide!!!

Originally Posted by Dedas

Another thing not to look down at is the broad sword/axe type warrior. Why? Because you have only length 1 weapons on all your other units (except iron and steel warrior). Short sword and axes will not have the upper hand against the very common short sword of early age, broad sword is length 2 however and will. All of them including iron (maul) and (great sword) steel warrior will have problem with the even more common spear. Only the shield maiden with her high defence and morale will have it easier when facing masses of spears, but with only a short sword, one attack and lower strength than the warriors she won't punch through heavy armour such as Abysias. In that case I would definitely go with the double wielding high strength and cheap axe throwing maniacs. Anything with no shield (no high parry) and medium to low defence (but maybe high protection) should get an axe to the head.

You may not spotted it, but most short-sword or spear-carrying troops in EA do have shields. And spears repel your broadsword-carrying guys just as good as they do shortsword-wielding gals - better, actually, as both kinds of elite Maidens have bonuses to defense while your "mainacs" actually have penalties for their axes... (this is also why I am a loud proponent of an idea to arm them mainly with hatchets? by the way - -1 to both attack and defense with double weapons just can't be overcome with any ambidexterity...)
As for low MR I'm currently thinking about actually taking Drain with this nations - but possibly it won't work due to lack of high-end mages who can overcome Drain penalty... On the other hand, you have access to all 3 research boosters and may forge them with discount. Plus, it's more thematic...
To pyg:
When I tried them some time ago I always had 2 Death-2 Shamans on average by the end of year 2 - mid-year 3 iirc both in SP tests and in MP. Please don't forget that EA Ulm has cheap castles and all other Shamans you get are far from being useless (from each hundred you gain about 2 D2, 2 N2, 2 E3, 2 F2 - very useful all except N2 which you already have from Antlered ones - and all others can at least research or thug out)...
To Maraxus on tramplers:
Warrior maidens with their high-precision bows! In sufficient numbers they can make tramplers run even without buffs - and if numbers aren't sufficient they just fade back into woods...
As for research, I'd say that with this nation the main theme would be a Construction. With Alteration and Enchantment as secondary obiections (Probably Ench 3-4 first for Strength of Giants). On the other hand, if you have Magic scale, you will probably need to study Thaumathurgy quite soon - you have no problem with research but need more gems to forge with.
And on Pretender design - Forge Lord would be very thematic, but we are severely pressed to put additional paths on him. So I think that Rainbow or even Immobile would be better here. Actually, some time ago I've toyed with an idea of a Drain scale offset with an Awakened Sage... What would Your Baalziness say?

[Dedas]

I have noticed.

But I think all of you fail to take into account the power of several attacks, especially against big units. A square can fit max 6 size 1 units, 3 size 2 units, 2 size 3 units and 1 size 4-6 unit. In battle one square attacks another square of units.

A giant is size 4 and up meaning that he will get 6 attacks made on him by dual wielders as if attacked by 6 size 1 units. And as we all know any attacks made after the first one means -2 defence for the defending unit after each attack. That means a whooping -10 to defence compared to the -4, if faced by standard one attack size 3 units, on the last hit. Add high strength and axes (damage 7) + throwing (big targets easier to hit) and you have a unit made for kicking giant asses. Oh, and giants are not uncommon in EA.

Thinking about this I come to the conclusion that this is probably what the Illwinter guys was thinking when designing EA Ulm. Axe maniacs against giants and warrior women against the more pathetic men of the other human nations, for example EA Ermor (it is even stated in their description).

One fault of the CBM mod is trying to make the axe infantry the standard run to the mill unit for EA Ulm. The truth is that they have none - it all depends on what they are facing. Dual axes will never be cost effective against standard spear + shield infantry, that is what you have warrior maidens for. Maidens on the other hand will never be the best choice if facing giants as they have less strength, punier weapons, less HP, low protection, fewer attacks. The cost effective choice here is axe maniacs. So it is all about adapting to the opposition, as always in this game. Trying to normalize everything makes it rather plain and dull.

On the other hand I love the CBM when it makes useful things with little to no use, in this case though it is wrong as I explained above.

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by Wrana

(from each hundred you gain about 2 D2, 2 N2, 2 E3, 2 F2 - very useful all except N2 which you already have from Antlered ones - and all others can at least research or thug out)...

As for research, I'd say that with this nation the main theme would be a Construction. With Alteration and Enchantment as secondary obiections (Probably Ench 3-4 first for Strength of Giants). On the other hand, if you have Magic scale, you will probably need to study Thaumathurgy quite soon - you have no problem with research but need more gems to forge with.
And on Pretender design - Forge Lord would be very thematic, but we are severely pressed to put additional paths on him. So I think that Rainbow or even Immobile would be better here. Actually, some time ago I've toyed with an idea of a Drain scale offset with an Awakened Sage... What would Your Baalziness say?

No way, the N2 shamans rock so much. It's kind of like trying to pick my favorite child, my favorite one is whatever one I'm looking at now. Put a cheap rune smasher and thistle mace on him (and a void eye if you can find one), a couple of these all over the place and even high MR thugs are suddenly very shy - charm works almost better as a deterrent than a unit grabber. In the early part of the game he's dropping wooden warriors using no gems or boosters (as in with every small army in every fight), later dropping mass protection using just two gems and no booster! This is the guy that makes me comfortable figuring most of my infantry has barkskin for most fights through the whole game. These guys can also cast strength of gia, so with just a thistle mace you're dropping mass regeneration, serpents blessing, relief, add in one of those blood stones and you're dropping gai's blessing and summoning cave drakes with dragon master. True, he can't do anything the antlered shaman doesn't have covered, but that doesn't mean he's not a serious workhorse.

As to where to focus your research, it really depends. There's a couple reasonable ways to go which you can to a certain extent play by ear depending on how a particular game is going. That said, *very* roughly here's how I look at your priorities.

Priority 1: Alteration gives you a *lot* of bang for the buck without spending many gems - which are very tight initially. I already highlighted wooden warriors, but realize you can also pass out a few earth gems and drop a bunch of destructions which works...um...well with dual weapon warriors. You're also looking at wind guide for all those archers and iron skin for your mages and swarm for aggressive enemy pretenders.

Priority 2: Site searching spells. Doesn't take too much research and your alteration buffed super-infantry should carry you nicely in the mean time

Priority 3: Evocation (along with conj-3 for summon * power). you've got awesome evocations.

Priority 4: Construction. It's all the way down here because 1) you have other stuff which is more *immediately* useful and 2) you have had time to stockpile some gems to make the most use out of it.

I see what you're saying re: drain, I don't think I could stomach it on a nation I'm so heavily relying on mages for. You have to always be aware that sometimes trying to be efficient means you don't win the race so it's always a balancing act between finding a good value and making sure you're not bringing a knife to a gunfight because your gun is on layaway. Who cares if I spent 4 times as much as you did for my gun, I'm the only one with a gun in this fight.

As to the forge lord, I certainly agree that he's expensive and there are other ways you can play it. However, how much is it worth to be able to forge air boosters for barely double digit gems (single digit if you can snag the forge lord hammer)? How much is it worth to be able to pass out several elemental staffs to your combat mages and some rings of sorcery to your relatively small death mages? It's very expensive, no doubt, but it can also really mean you're fighting at a whole other level if you can pull it off. There's a really, *really* big difference between fielding several A5 mages (2 boosters + crystal shield) and one guy you've squeezed up to A3.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Dedas

One fault of the CBM mod is trying to make the axe infantry the standard run to the mill unit for EA Ulm. The truth is that they have none - it all depends on what they are facing. Dual axes will never be cost effective against standard spear + shield infantry, that is what you have warrior maidens for. Maidens on the other hand will never be the best choice if facing giants as they have less strength, punier weapons, less HP, low protection, fewer attacks. The cost effective choice here is axe maniacs. So it is all about adapting to the opposition, as always in this game. Trying to normalize everything makes it rather plain and dull.

Sorry, but hps and protection doesn't help you against enemy giants! Higher defense of the Maidens does, though. And if you mean by "fewer attacks" normal Maidens then sorry again, of course only elite (Steel) ones are useful for overwhelming big dumb beasts. Normal Maidens would still remain quite useful for raiding and against many tramplers, as well as against many kinds of common infantry (and enemy archers).

And thank you, Baalz, though I still can't quite stomach an idea of Death scale for this nation, especially as it continues ro recruit largish armies throughout the game, together with recruitable warrior mages instead of SCs...

[licker]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Oh no, the steel warriors don't come close to justifying the E9 blessing. What justifies it is the shamans who are not only your thugs but also the teeth in your armies. If you're already going to E8 it's not *that* much more to go to E9, which makes those thugs much tougher and makes your combat mages more likely than not to ignore a stray arrow even without ironskin. Since I suggest using your mages pretty aggressively (spamming charm from the front line, etc.) it seems a prudent investment. Stacking on the steel warriors is a very tasty bonus which has great synergy.

If I was taking a bless primarily for the steel warriors I'd probably look more at a water/blood blessing to maximize damage output since that's the niche you're using them for.

I'm still not sold on the E9, or even E8. What's the difference in one more point of reinvig? What's the point in 4 more protection when you are already going to be at 30?

It just seems you give up a ton in opportunity cost, either for better scales, more diversity, sleeping as opposed to dormant, for 4 protection on units who are unlikely to be heavily used (steel) or targeted without prot buffs anyway(shamen). Now you may be right, and the benefit of not taking E9 doesn't really help that much, so you might as well do it.

I think the question is really do you want slightly more survieable shamen, or just MORE shamen in the first place, because if you plow those extra points into order or growth (to get away from issues already raised about taking death) you will have an easier time putting up more castles and recruiting more shamen in the first place.

Now I grant that I am not looking at the early game so much, and for some map types E9 may make alot more sense (small cramped maps with slow research). But for a 'normal' (yeah, whatever that is) set up with some room to set up, and normal research speed, it seems the benefit of taking better scales (or to a lesser extent better magic diversity on your pretender) out weighs the E9 bless.

[Trumanator]

Just to point out a useful attribute of the Antlered Shamans. When they're blessed, they actually get a pretty good regen, 3 usually, and 4 if they have an N random. I actually found this out when looking at ways to thug out Oreiads, and for them its even better, since they have 3N naturally, and all of them can cast mistform.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, even if most pr0s probably already know it.

[Endoperez]

What? Are you saying that innate Nature magic increases the amount of regeneration you get from a Nature bless?

[Trumanator]

Yep. It implies as much in pretender magic selection I think, but other than that it seems to be a closely guarded secret.