Germany OOB 16: miscellaneous comments

[blazejos]

I thinking that if you will be interested to include period of first german-soviet cooperation in 1929-1933 (blue OOB) and tanks tested in Panzerschule Kama during that time. Meaby that is some period when german Reichswehr tank program and soviet has some mutual development.
Kama Testing ground
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_tank_school

and tank in question will be Leichttraktor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichttraktor

https://warspot.net/128-krupp-leichttraktor



There was also modernised variant with christie suspension meaby close to WW2 when was used as a training tank in Germany



Secound one was Grostraktor



https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/0...e-grostraktor/

And soviet-german joint-venture developed by German engineer Tank Grotte

[DRG]

Błażej , I think you have greatly overestimated my desire to add every trivial development in armour and aircraft into the game. Yes I have added a few oddballs in the past. That does not mean I have any plans to expand on that. Things that actually made it into combat maybe but certainly not these

This is what the mods forum is for.

[Pibwl]

Few remaining notes:

9 PzKw III G 5cm - version with applique armour should have also 30+30 armour at the hull rear (the same as later H) [Jentz].

BTW: according to Jentz, "starting late in 1940, some PzKpfw III G" had applique armour - maybe 11/40 would be safer combat entry date [now 10/40]

10,11 PzKw III H, J - I'm not sure if they shouldn't have SD, like other Pz IIIs of that period

584 PzKw IIIG 3.7cm - first were completed in March 1941 [now 7/41] - presumably they were available in May or June (not much improvement over III F anyway, apart from 30mm rear armour).


489 7.5cm Geb IG 18 - picture is ordinary leIG, and mountain variant should have twin tail icon. Photos of mountain variant are rare, possibly only here https://www.quartermastersection.com...mle.Geb.IG%208 However, it's better to replace it with with classic Czech 7.5cm GebK 15 (Skoda M.15), which was basic German mountain gun (eg. from Romanian #132 75mm Mtn Gun).

According to Polish article on German mountain artillery, Geb IG 18 was designed only in 1937 and produced from 1937/1938 (now 1/32). But only 95 were made, and it was rather lousy weapon. On the other hand, a few Skodas were a leftover from WW1, used for training of mountain artillery (from 1/30), and several hundreds were acquired later, starting from Anschluss in 1938 and occupation of Czechia and Yugoslavia. Its range 7 km (or even 8200 m according to other sources) was twice as big, as Geb IG 18 (3300 m). They were also used by paratroops until Crete landing. From 1941 they started to be replaced with 7.5cm GebG 36 (range 9.2 km), but they never were completely replaced.

BTW: I see now, that this gun in Czechoslovak OOB (weapon #33) has much too low range 60, while in Romanian OOB it has 165.
In Slovak oob there is howitzer with weapon #33 with 165 range and #32 75mm vz.15-IG with 60 (is a smaller range of IG justified?).

BTW2: Yugoslavian OOB obviously should not use #322 75mm Geb IG 18 after the war, but popular Skoda instead, either from pre-war stock or Italian variant booties. Yugoslavia also used these guns before the war (captured in 1941 by the Germans as GebK 259 (j)) - maybe it should be added as pre-war pack howitzer as well? (currently there is only #320 65mm pre-war pack howitzer, I don't know if it was used).
Also #321 75mm Mtn Gun would be the captured Italian variant and therefore its weapon should be named 75L13 instead of 75L17 (Italian designation was 75/13).

I think that's all this time.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

BTW: I see now, that this gun in Czechoslovak OOB (weapon #33) has much too low range 60,

You didn't bother to look at what it was being used for. If you had you wouldn't have asked that question. One is being used in an AT role and the other is a DF infantry support gun. Same applies to the Slovak

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

You didn't bother to look at what it was being used for. If you had you wouldn't have asked that question. One is being used in an AT role and the other is a DF infantry support gun. Same applies to the Slovak

I've seen it before in Czechoslovak oob - but I treated range 60 as incorrect for howitzer/mountain gun use, and I didn't think, that we could create two separate weapons. By the way, I recall I've found usage of this gun as a stop-gap ATG on Czech pages.

Only later I looked at Slovak OOB, which has two weapons, but here the gun with range 60 is IG, not ATG.

[DRG]

and 60 is acceptable for a DF infantry gun or a weapon used in an AT role that is intended for direct fire only.

And yes there can be two ( or more ) versions of the same weapon / gun for different purposes. It's done many times in the OOB's. 66, 79 and 80 are all 152mm M-10's in the Russian OOB but we do NOT give direct fire only guns the range indirect fire guns get. That has been true since day one and it's not going to change

In the above example, 66 and 79 are used by two versions of the KV-2. One is the DF tank and the other the indirect fire-capable SP arty unit. 80 is the version used by the regular arty. There is no difference between 79 and 80 except the name because two decades of dealing with nit picking over minutia like this has taught us that using a "FH" version in a tank generates "error" reports.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

And yes there can be two ( or more ) versions of the same weapon / gun for different purposes. It's done many times in the OOB's. 66, 79 and 80 are all 152mm M-10's in the Russian OOB but we do NOT give direct fire only guns the range indirect fire guns get. That has been true since day one and it's not going to change

I'm far from suggesting it I only explained why I didn't think about AT usage, focussing upon too small howitzer range. And in case of Slovak OOB, the one with smaller range is IG, hence my doubt (very slight, in brackets). I think there's no need to continue, you are obviously right as for AT guns.

[MarkSheppard]

Any chance of the Me 321 glider in the Blue German OOB overflow section?

Three main reasons:

1.) Ordered for Sea Lion -- can kind of squint and use in a "1941 Sea Lion" scenario.

2.) Deadliest aviation disaster until 1960 -- 4 plane crash killing 129, of which 120 were troops in the Me 321 during testing.

3.) Withdrawn from Eastern Front for use in Operation Herkules, invasion of Malta; but never used when that was cancelled.

[DRG]

The 'problem' is aside from a series of planned missions that didn't happen and being involved in the above-mentioned aviation disaster. It was never really used in a capacity related to the scope of this game.

And yes there are aircraft lurking in the game that have similar stories but I have considered and rejected adding this at least once before because to keep it to the scale of the other gliders in the game it would be 160% larger than the Hamilcar which is already verging on being too large for the game map and the encyclopaedia and purchase screens and finally, this thing was not intended to be flown directly into combat unlike the ones in the game now. This is not something anyone would intentionally fly into a "hot LZ"

So..... not really interested even as a "challenge"

[Ts4EVER]

I wonder: I realize the German oob is already completely full and can't be expanded for technical reasons. Would it be viable to maybe add some "exotic" German gear people might want to use in scenarios to the generic factions (red, green or blue) in some kind of special formation that the AI doesnt pick? Thinking of stuff like this glider, but also things that actually saw use and are not in the normal oob, like the Pak41, for instance.