Great game

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Christocipher

does pinned mean they are lying on there bellies, not sure if it is then pinned in a trench would make it impossible to kill anyone further until they stand up again, from a distance

Also do you think it would it be good to move normal speed in trenches

I believe being pinned simply means, the unit is more interested in looking for cover than fighting. Pinned units receive a defensive bonus and penalized offensively when firing. In a trench, some soldiers in a pinned unit would still be able to be hit, because some may look over the edge even when told not to (some soldiers are more disciplined than others or more "foolhardy" than others). Some of the soldiers in a pinned unit may not be effected at all and remain viable targets, but their unit would lose cohesion and team work, thus that's why their unit receives offensive penalties when pinned. Some would be able to find more effective cover than others, even in a trench.

As far as movement goes in a trench, I don't think the unit's speed matters, as long as you go from trench hex to trench hex, staying in the same trench as you go.

Hope this helps.

[Christocipher]

Hey Thanks Everyone for all the info about how to play I read the help already at work dont tell anyone I got not too bad idea so far maybe even pbem one day. I am trying to say not about tactics but that in a trench its like being on a road but the people can only go one hex at a time would it be better if the people went 3 hexes at a time or even 6 hexes at a time when in a trench. I mean they can have good level bottoms and they are deep enough to run standing up and dont need to look around or be careful no one can shoot you down there.

For pinning in a trench if the people decide to just be sensible and lie in the bottom of the trench out of sight until the tanks go by they cant do that even the elite veterans. The tanks can always shoot at them like they are showing themselves. It doesnt take long to kill them all if it took 10 times longer to kill them all that would be better but also if they stopped taking kills altogether if pinned or retreating in a trench I think that also would be realistic. But not if the unit is next to them though and infantry. Maybe a tank would need to be in the same hex as them to kill them when they are lying in the bottom.

I think kill rate in rough terrain or buildings is not much different to being in a trench I think it would be good if it was much less killed in a trench because you are sort of underground much better protected than in a house or behind something.

Yes this helps a lot

[Christocipher]

You said before I could put defences in shallow water but I can't work out how to do that can someone fill me in on how to do that.

[DRG]

Andy misspoke.

We have discussed adding this to the game on and off for years and that may have been why he said that. Right now you cannot lay defences like mines, DT etc in any terrain that is -1 height......which is shallow water

However you CAN put down Mines, DT's and wire in swamps which are a -2 terrain height

So...... NO Mines, DT's and wire in -1 ( shallow ) and -3 (deep ) water terrain but you can put them in -2 swamp terrain

Game quirk. Water is -1 and -3 and swamp is -2

BUT the terrain must report it being swamp for that to work. Another game quirk is if you put a swamp where water already exists it will show being swamp on the map but report and act like it is deep water.......so only edit swamp into a map over existing land terrain unless you want to recreate the Sargasso Sea.....

Bottom line........ EXPERIMENT

[Mobhack]

Strange - I thought so, but it has been 10+ years since I looked at that stuff.

Posibly the reason may be that there are no swimming engineer things, so a water hex with a mine or DT etc - could not ever be cleared. Certainly not by the AI and so those would be impassable hexes and cause hiccups. So not a good thing(tm) really.

[DRG]

if in shallow water, an engineer could remove them because infantry ( and vehicles ) can move in shallow water.
That said I think the only thing I would want to be allowed to be placed in shallow water would be Dragons teeth and even that I am on the fence about

[Christocipher]

Wow what a lot of tricky stuff is in this game. This game will keep me busy for a long time. I guess no-one is interested in my idea that people can move 3 hexes instead of 1 in trenches and can hide in them until the tanks go by, they were pretty deep.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Christocipher

Wow what a lot of tricky stuff is in this game. This game will keep me busy for a long time. I guess no-one is interested in my idea that people can move 3 hexes instead of 1 in trenches and can hide in them until the tanks go by, they were pretty deep.

I believe you can move at any rate up to the unit's movement points, but you have to move from trench hex to trench hex within the same trench, otherwise their not considered to be in the trench anymore. I believe only infantry type units can take advantage of trenches, not vehicles; cavalry I'm not sure about.

Tanks spotting infantry is pretty much dependent on the terrain and the spotting range. It also depends on if the infantry is dug in or not, if the tank is buttoned, if some of the tank's crew has been eliminated, if the infantry fires at the tank, or if the infantry is firing a lot at other targets.

[Christocipher]

Can you really move your guys 3 hexes in a trench I can't do it only 1 hex maybe there is something wrong on my computer and I should reinstall the game again. Yeah I understand about the spotting. How about this for a idea when the people in the trench use the cover button they always dissapear without fail because that would in real life mean they are lying in the bottom of the trench, same as if they had gone to ground by being pinned

[Dion]

It really doesn't matter if the enemy can see you in a trench, because hardly anyone ever gets killed in a trench and most only receive suppression or become pinned, and being pinned in a trench is hardly any different than being non-pinned in a trench.

Also, units "heal" a lot of suppression when in a trench, and being pinned in a trench usually lasts only 1/2 a turn. Many times, I will fire at a unit in trench a hundred times, they receive suppression and become pinned as normal then they are returned back to an unsuppressed state in their half of the turn, so by the time it's my turn again their back to normal. You either have to wait for them to collect a lot of suppression and run after waiting for about half the game, assault them with high explosives, or use high caliber artillery.