MP: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins!

[melnorjr]

He did, but septimius' point as that if immaculate was put in back it would necessarily be another noob put in front, which wouldn't seem to be any better off than immaculate.
The comment about bringing in someone from the bench was that they have more experience and might be able to handle the front lines better.

[Septimius Severus]

Melnorjr is correct. Algae's team has 3 noobs, although viccio may have slightly more experience than Rabbit or immaculate.

Indidual nation placement is somewhat tied to the team listings on the opening post in that that first two positions intended for the captain and intermediate level positions we will be placed forward by default. If you'd like your actual nation placement to differ, you need only PM me with your desired scheme. You can also achieve this without altering the default placement and having to send me a PM, by switching nations around among players. I still recommend people keep their two most experienced players forward so they won't catch hell.

Ok here's question you've all been waiting for:

Do team captains want to make any more swaps?

Absent any affirmative responses, Gandalf will be notified to proceed and the opening post will be updated.

[Septimius Severus]

I want to thank everyone for hanging in there through the debates and all. We currently have more than two dozen people involved in some way, and as with any first game in a series, establishing ground rules and so forth takes some doing. Team games also generally have lots of back and forth and I try to encourage input as much as feasable.

I think we've learned alot from our discussions that can be put into practice in games 2 and 3:

1. Even though vet (or experienced intermediate) team captains are likely to survive longer due to their experience, teams can and should not be debarred from winning even if the captain is the only one left on the winning team. A good team captain though will do everything they can make all their nations viable offensively as well as defensively (teach them) and won't view them as simply forge whores or as sources of gems/gold. This is of course obvious but you never know. Indeed I've taken pains to ensure that this won't be the case as everyone should be able to get in on the action.

2. Captains and returning alternates should use their first or second choice privilege to grab most of the "powerful" or important nations quickly and eliminate contention in the ordered lists.

3. If number 2 is followed, there should be enough variety in the ordered/ranked lists to eliminate the need for more than one method of resolving them. Method 1 results were so similar to method 2, if makes no sense in bothering with the second method unless absolutely necessary (abcddcbacbaabcd gives me a headache, aside from not being totally fair) .

4. Swaps, using Agema's quick and orderly method, helps ensure everyone is as happy as can be. Whether it encourages gamesmanship (which is in effect attempting to cheat using dubious methods) is debatable. I like to think it gives some flexibility in case an individual should change their mind or a player needs to be replaced.

5. Team captains in addition to being experienced should be active enough to advocate and make decisions for their team especially in the early phase of a game. Individual players must not act in place of their captain or at least without the consensus of the team. Some semblance of order needs to be preserved. Instructions from admin(s) need to be followed.

Note to self: My opening post, though I'm told fairly complete, still leaves too much room for players to read between the lines or exploit gaps, and doesn't explain everything.

Have I forgotten anything?

Oh yes, don't forget we are here to have fun, winning is not everything!

[Septimius Severus]

Swaps are now officially closed! Gandalf has been notified. Opening post has been updated. Contact me with any placement or player/nation changes.

Finish your pretender designs, discuss strategies, run tests, contact players who may have died, or whatever else you need to do in the meantime.

Thanks.

[AnimateDream]

I know the time is long past for its relevance in this thread, but I think I have a more fair method of nation selection. abcd dcba dcba dcba dcba etc. Reversing the order every time sounds logical but if you look very closely it does little for the fairness.

For example if you went abcd dcba abcd. The a's get first pick of the all important first draft as well as getting first pick of third draft, while d only gets first pick of the second draft and has to deal with being last in the other two.

After getting first pick in the first draft, trailing 4 picks behind D after that doesn't seem too bad a deal for A.

[AlgaeNymph]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Discuss strategies.

I've an opening strategy up for review in our forums.

[pyg]

Originally Posted by AlgaeNymph

I've an opening strategy up for review in our forums.

Hmmm, it says I don't have permission to read it. Can you fix that?

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by AnimateDream

I know the time is long past for its relevance in this thread, but I think I have a more fair method of nation selection. abcd dcba dcba dcba dcba etc. Reversing the order every time sounds logical but if you look very closely it does little for the fairness.

For example if you went abcd dcba abcd. The a's get first pick of the all important first draft as well as getting first pick of third draft, while d only gets first pick of the second draft and has to deal with being last in the other two.

After getting first pick in the first draft, trailing 4 picks behind D after that doesn't seem too bad a deal for A.

What I was saying though in the previous post was that I was going to do away with all such alphabetical ordering schemes, and stick with my method, not only because I see them as unbalanced in one way or another (someone has to be A and get first pick, D get's two picks in a row, etc, etc.), but also because the simpler line by line granting of uncontested picks from the ordered lists is probably all we will need (+ swaps to quiet any discontent).

Hell, if I read DrP correctly, he'd do away with swaps completely and you'd get what you get and deal with it!

I think the uncontested pick method generally does a fine job of giving teams pretty much what they wanted based on what and how high they listed them in the ranked lists.

I think one reason Noobheim may have not have fared as well as the other teams this time (though I think all teams did pretty well i.e. no one got their 9th or 12 picks, everyone got their first pick, etc.) was by submitting a list of the full 17 nations instead of the 12 or 13 which probably would have sufficed, causing Noobheim to possibly dilute their top picks a bit and not concentrate them as much as perhaps the other teams did who submitted shorter lists. Yes, there is an element of luck, but that is present in any method I can think of.

But I would definitely entertain a complete solution to the whole business for the next game that is completely balanced, makes as many people happy as possible, is not too complicated and easy on the poor admin, and is not too time consuming.

The sense and respond approach which has been advocated (where captains take turns posting a pick) sounds appealing, but can take awhile especially if there are a lot of nations to assign, and the team captains are not that active on the forum. Then there is the whole business of ordering and then deciding who is team a, b, c, d, and some have advocated even changing that up every round. A chat session would probably be the fastest way to handle this type of sense and respond approach (active vs passive ranked lists). I wouldn't mind it a bit if the team captains could handle the whole business in a single chat session on shrapnel, and save me and everyone else the headaches.

Thanks for your input. I think the alternates will become hot commodities come next game if they choose to play.

[AlgaeNymph]

Originally Posted by pyg

Hmmm, it says I don't have permission to read it. Can you fix that?

I...don't know how yet.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

I think one reason Noobheim may have not have fared as well as the other teams this time (though I think all teams did pretty well i.e. no one got their 9th or 12 picks, everyone got their first pick, etc.) was by submitting a list of the full 17 nations instead of the 12 or 13 which probably would have sufficed, causing Noobheim to possibly dilute their top picks a bit and not concentrate them as much as perhaps the other teams did who submitted shorter lists. Yes, there is an element of luck, but that is present in any method I can think of.

Noobheim did just fine. They have always had a quite potent team. Arcoscephale isn't one of the top nations of the era, but grudgebringer is an arco specialist. He never plays anything BUT arco. So their only "bad" pick was ermor. Then they got to choose between pan and caelum. They chose pan. Their team is plenty strong. The only team that maybe sort of lost out is yours.