The FASTBOAT Patch page.

[Karagin]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I wish to confirm the following "work" issue...
X-Country has both an APC/IFV and MBT with a SURVIVABILTY of 5.

So X-Country will be deploying said equipment above to an IED/Mine environment and decided to add Steel Armor (Plates etc.) to the "bellies" of those units deploying.

Using "KISS", is it safe to assume, that the SURVIVABILTY would increased to 6?

That's my thinking anyway. Just wanting to establish some "groundwork" is all.

Regards,
Pat

Having been in Iraq during 03/04 with welded add-on armor aka the Mad Max stuff, I am not sure if it would increase things or not. Not saying it wouldn't raise the survivability but how much is going to be added? Are we talking belly armor only or the whole vehicle?

If it's just the belly then sure I could see it going up to 6 as needed but only for the scenario not as a production run thing, unless that becomes something that is done at the factory.

We learned the hard way the soft vehicles like PLSs and HMMVs etc...need armor. What we got post-welded plate was TARDAC kits of limited ballistic glass and door armor with some armor under the driver and TC sides of the vehicle. Then came the other thins like up-armored 1151s and 1152s.

So if it's for a scenario, I say yes it would, but not for a final run thing.

[DRG]

6 will allow the vehicle and the crew a better chance of surviving over a 5 and a 7 makes the vehicle an MRV

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Thanks! I just wanted to verify no other "variables" came into play and that it was just simple "KISS" involved issue.

Of course I do look at STANAG stats for a given vehicle when the issue pops up.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Lots going on with our house, our Grand Daughter Graduating H.S. (AWESOME!! and with honors!!) which means I'll be "dark for 2 weeks" (And no work!! ) soon and finally trying to get MANY things done in here, so PLEASE, Thread rules apply here. THANK YOU!!

Concerning German OOB work, specifically GTK BOXER. The current weapons systems are the FLW-100 and FLW-200.

Issue: The FLW-100 has a known "BLIND SPOT" on for GTK BOXER caused by a design flaw in the RWS Pedestal Mount. It sits too low.

The fix came with the FLW-200 with a taller Pedestal mount and some other minor improvements.

Both are still in service.

My intended fix is to use a distinction between the two by penalizing the FLW-100 in it's TI/GSR.

Though I can easily justify TI/GSR 60 for both, for now I'm thinking FLW-100 TI/GSR 45 and FLW-200 TI/GSR 50.

If your good with FLW-200 @ TI/GSR 60, I'll make the corresponding change to the other as demonstrated above. Again I can easily support this.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Here's my thinking concerning BOXER FLW-100/200 (And investigating use of FLW-200 Plus w/Dual fed 20mm HE/AP mixed ammo load.)

GTK BOXER A0: Armed with early version FLW-100 12.7mm or 40mm/GSR 40./SURVIBILITY 5

GTK BOXER A1: Armed with improved FLW-100 same weapons/GSR 45/SURVIBILITY 6 & 7. The A1 when they deployed to Afghanistan were fitted by KMW with "belly armor" steel plate (Not in the field.), which will mean 2 additional units, 4 total for the A1 version.

GTK BOXER A2: Armed with improved FLW-200 and as noted above, the FLW-200 Plus./GSR 50/SURVIBILITY 7. Current improved variant, based on "lessons learned" from the BOXER AO/A1 previous deployments to Afghanistan.

1. I'm seeing the addition of up to 6 more BOXERS.

2. There will be date changes to the right for the existing in game units outside of our "Wag", for everyone else, that's 6 months when we have conflicting dates. That being said, these are again driven by when the Training unit first got their FIRST one OR when the combat unit got their FIRST one.

3. I suspect there'll be other modifications as well.

4. From the BUNDESWEHR website, I'll be submitting around 3-5 new combat vehicles NOT currently in the OOB.

5. Some explanation in my last Posts in here on BOXER, I felt that GSR 60 was a legitimate number for the FLW-200 weapon system. After some thought and just reaching a decision earlier today, I decided against it. Why? Rightly or wrongly, that's because that's where our most modern/newest tanks in or about to be in are currently in the game.

I might be corrected on this notion, but I generally see the newest APC/IFV at (At their upper limit #) GSR 50/55 (w/ATGW). HEAVY IFV GSR 55/60 these are normally your "tank killers" with same for all wheeled or tracked "tanks". AH Helos GSR 70. This if you consider ALL aspects of the running game environment and internal operating systems (Mostly Game Code.)

6. I finally with this "sign of life" would ask that PLEASE DO NOT GET AHEAD OF ME ON THIS. I already know, I need to modify the tanks as submitted in the last Patch.

7. This will almost or be in the same vain, be similar to TURKEY, INDIA, MALAYSIA, INDONESIA AND USA/USMC in scope.

However the big difference is at least I knew it was coming. unlike above, it was more a matter of a piece(s) of equipment causing me to go down the rabbit hole in the above countries i.e. M1A1 FEP, LEOPARD 2T (DOA to ALTAY) etc.

All legitimate issues that however, all required "looking back to look forward" I think most know what I mean here.

Time for my WALK!!!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

HOUSE RULES STILL APPLY HERE! IF UNSURE I REFER YOU TO POST #1 Para 1. THANK YOU!!

THIS AS MUCH FOR MY FUTURE TRACKING PURPOSES AS IT IS FOR YOUR READING PLEASURE. As I've already noted some work here.

This does clear up a couple of questions in my head mainly what equipment are the Ukrainian forces training on both Germany and UK? The answer appears to the Heavy Artillery (100 Panzerhaubitze PzH 2000 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers & AS90 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers) those countries are providing.

Just thinking "out loud" here wonder if any Ukrainian personnel are learning on the German LEO 1A4/5 or GEPARD. Time will tell.

Also note, not that I ever read anything before I post it, the first UK date should read as February vice March.

U.S. 121 "Phoenix Ghost" unmanned aerial systems, they were originally designed for the USAF sometime before the war and have been modified "slightly" to support Ukrainian operations. As effective as the "Switchblade" has been against heavy armor, it's been "suggested" the "Phoenix Ghost" might more so.
https://fortune.com/2022/04/22/phoen...a-ukraine-war/
https://www.flightglobal.com/militar...431965f1bf988c

The article:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...o_ukraine.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The "Mission Statement" generally takes more time especially with the topic below and as such is done now and posted below. Most know I'm a "deep digger" one it's ingrained to my DNA even prior to my military career further I owe it to Don and more importantly you the player.

I check on game reviews and the consistent remarks made about BOTH games are the level of research and updates made to these games.

We've accrued other accolades; however, none is more important than those mentioned above as they're the only ones that I can make my contribution to the game and players.

Be patient, the below is "proof of life" and hopefully the rest will come along soon. But for tonight this is it.

Patch Post #1 for the 2022/2023 Campaign Page 1.
Well, it’s been a while in fact the 2019/2020 Patch Submission was my last in this thread or at least in my Word files.

So, with that be said there are “HOUSE RULES” in play here if unfamiliar please refer to POST #1 of this Thread. This in short is where Don and I hash things out and unlike “standard” post this is a living document and Thread for us to work through any issues to what I’ve posted. Look in all you want just don’t post anything in here please – thank you.

My primary mission here is to address the Russian donation of armored units primarily to the Ukraine since the war started on 24 February 2022 to the present.

Methodology is discussed somewhat in the MBT Thread in Posts #1416 and #1425 after which I had a significant life event happen that delayed me until now.

To avoid the player from buying an “unlimited” single tanks and to keep to the reality of what’s going on the battlefield you will not for instance see the T-90M on my list as of this date only 5 totaled were either damaged/destroyed (3) with (2) captured in almost factory new condition which I’ve discussed several times in the MBT thread. So, what did I do?

FIRST As noted above with the T-90M, you won’t see Russian BMP-1/2 OR 3, T-72A etc.. However, you will see the Russian T-62M/MV as the Ukrainians don’t have any stockpiled but fielded a Battalion of them in late November. Also, the Russians used a different ATGW on theirs as well.

SECOND I spent HOURS reviewing videos and photographs.

THIRD I set a standard for how many units would make the work and game worth having. I feel after MUCH thought the following was both practical and realistic to the war situation factoring numbers, condition of the units, estimated repair times and training which in most cases would’ve been minimal. That standard was based on the ability to field a minimum of 2 Platoons plus 1 as a “reserve” or if you will “2+1” .

Fourth I further spent time with both OOB’s the purpose was to “whittle down” the number of candidates for this submission. If the captured tank was at parity with a current Ukrainian unit, I scratched it from the list.

Result: I’m looking at 10 Russian tanks and 2 APCs and a date CHANGE for 1 Ukrainian APC. With a SMALL number of administrative changes for Unit names and dates.

START dates will both be based on 2+1 as noted above and the dates of picture/video range from the CAPTURED tank section ONLY. Also, I offer Ukrainian Units as near peer ones to the Russian one submitted. Those Ukrainian units are already on paper, and the Russian tanks will generally be better overall.

I would find those dates “fell in” very closely in most cases to the actual operational dates in numbers and also, WELL within Dons and my “SWAG” when info isn’t always definitive.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

BACK TO WORK TODAY WILL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS QUICKLY. Here is the rest as a continuation of the previous Post.

Patch Post #1 for the 2022-2023 Campaign Page 2.
A quick update, early this morning (Week ago almost.) and revisited the ORNX site since I looked into this last in November. Tanks that saw increases in captured tanks will be marked with a [B+” [/b]. The Russian tanks that saw the largest “captured” increases by several were the T-72B3M (As to be corrected below.) and the T-80BV. Also, to update the T-90M stats now show 9 T-90M: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, damaged) (2, damaged) (3, damaged) (1, damaged and abandoned) (1, captured) (2, captured) as of today.

Also, for current/future players should we consider something such (C), 22 or CAP to denote their captured status after their “name”?

The (31) after the name by example, shows how many were captured (2+1) of each unit. The [BPVR” [/b] means Photo Video Range by dates. As discussed in Page 1 this will set my START dates unless I have better data.

UKRAINE/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL TF 36/HEAT HF 35/TF 43/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. //
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL HS 10/HEAT HS 13/TS 21/TOP 6/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. //These tanks were I believe both designed and built in what was then Soviet occupied Ukraine. The Ukrainian tanks were "inherited" after the Soviet Empire collapsed. There are no differences between them.

UKRAINE/ADD/T-62M (33) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 021/PVR MAR10-NOV13 2022/START/N0V 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 022. //
UKRAINE/ADD T-62MV (8) +/COPY/RUSSIAN RIVISED UNIT 023/PVR APR10-NOV11 2022/START/NOV 2022. //
The Ukraine just literally got rid of all their T-62 tanks except for the ones on display in museums and parks ~25 years ago. Though Ukrainian UNIT 022 was actually better in the T-62M1 BDD version which apparently Russia had as well. Also, it appears Russia will be bringing back a slightly modified version of the Russian T-62M1 BDD as part of 800 T-62 modernization Program to start later this year.
****** The question “hanging in the air” is do we add the T-62M1 BDD to the Russian OOB as copied from the Ukraine OOB as they had it? ******
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...sian_army.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...91e1803f05bb9e
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-losses-report
https://weaponsystems.net/system/634-T-62M
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t62.htm

Page 3.
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72AV/UNIT 033/START/JAN 1988 VICE JAN 1985/PER REFS AT END. //
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B/UNIT 036/START JUN 1989 VICE JAN 1988/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992/PER REFS AT END. //
Going with USA date.
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...ttle_Tank_(MBT)
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/MBT/t-72bm.htm
(This ref. not updated since 2000. See very bottom of page.)

UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B (65) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 036/PVR MAR20-NOV29 2022/START JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 033. //

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B1M/UNIT 045/RENAME/T-72B3/START/JAN 2013 VICE JAN 2012/ADD/ATGW 9M119 AT-11 SVIR OR 9M119M REFLEKKS/HAS APS ARENA/TI/GSR 40 VICE 45/MG 125mm 2A46M-5 VICE 125mm GUN 05. // One of few Russian tanks that can use more than one ATGW. TI/GSR changed to maintain separation with the T-72B3M as submitted below, that tank currently represents the APEX” in T-72 design. However, I feel the rest of the FCS should remain unchanged. The Contract wasn’t signed until 2012 to begin the modernization program. By the end of 2013 a total of 270 units were produced. This tank as it stands compares "nicely” against the current Russian T-73B3 UNIT 697.
RUSSIA/DELETE/T-72B1M/UNIT 047/TANK DOES NOT EXIST/NOT NEEDED FOR T-73B3/ALL T-72B3 HAVE APS ARENA INSTALLED. // See MBT Post # 1459 for further. As a postscript to that post, what I just did above I had written down almost a week ago-listen to that inner voice. Also due to that post, RUSSIAN/T-72BM/UNIT 037/I’VE LEFT IT UNCHANGED.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...act_sheet.html

UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3 (83) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 045/PVR MAR07-DEC01 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 042 & 043. //

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B3/UNIT 697/RENAME/T-72B3M. // As discussed in the MBT Thread, I unintentionally named this tank incorrectly when submitted during the 2013/2014 Patch Campaign.

UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3M (100) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 697/PVR MAR02-DEC28 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 061 & 063. //
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b4.htm

******ORNX would report that there are currently 102 T-72 variants which they haven’t been able to classify with 80 Destroyed/16 Damaged/1 Damaged & Abandoned and 5 Captured.
I call this journalistic “integrity”. ******

Page 4
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BV/UNIT 040/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992. // This tank is very much still in service. Also, it’s confirmed that to date 199 been destroyed, damaged, and abandoned with 77 captured by Ukraine. However newer pictures seem to show it with Kontakt-5 ERA package.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...res_video.html
https://weaponsystems.net/system/832-T-80BV
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 046/FC 45 VICE 50/STABILIZER 5 VICE 6 .//Earlier models had a passive defensive system VRISS per refs. ALSO “In 2018 a first batch of 31 T-80BV tanks was upgraded to the T-80BVM standard. These operational tanks were first publicly revealed during a military parade in 2018. However, these initial tanks lacked some features of the T-80BVM demonstrator that was revealed in 2017.” In 2019 31 T-80BV tanks were too be updated to the modernized version of the T-80BVM based on the above mentioned 2017 demonstrator. That would be UNIT 048 below.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80bvm.htm
https://weaponsystems.net/system/835-T-80BVM

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 048/ START/JAN 2020 VICE OCT 2018/TI/GSR 45 VICE 40/SURVIABILITY 5 VICE 4/ADD/ARENA APS SYSTEM//. Upon review of the ORNX pictures where the turrets aren’t too badly damaged, they are ALL clearly showing me the mast used for the ARENA APS. There’s only 2 trains of thought here 1. All got the ARENA APS installed SINCE 2020. 2. Russia ONLY committed those tanks with the ARENA APS to the war while the T-80BVM not equipped are “elsewhere”. At this time I feel we should leave BOTH these tanks in and go with thought #2 as there is no evidence to the contrary.
https://tass.com/defense/1098733

UKRAINE/ADD/T-80BVM (32) +)/COPY/REVISED RUSSIAN UNIT 048/PVR MAR04-DEC22 2022/START/AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 046. //

RUSSIA/DELETE/T-90A/UNIT 052/PER REFS T-90A ONLY EQUIPPED WITH SHORTORA-1 VIRSS SYSTEM.// “T-90A also has a laser warning system and an aerosol-generating system that uses 3D17 grenades of 902A Tucha (Cloud) designation.”

UKRAINE/ADD/T-90A (12) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 051/ERA/VERFY KONTAKT-5/ERA NUMBERS LOOK HIGH FOR IT/PVR FEB27-SEP30/START/JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 064. //
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ical_data.html
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...er-syria-53907

******ORNX would report that there are currently 180 Unknown tank: Variants (Mine-Based on placement on the list, I’ll assume these cover all T-80 and T-90 types.) which they haven’t been able to classify with 165 Destroyed/10 Damaged/3 Damaged & Abandoned and 2 Abandoned.
I call this again journalistic “integrity”. ******


Page 5
Russian Captured APCs
UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-82A (122)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 700/PVR FEB28 2022-JAN02 2023/START/JUN 2022. // The advantages should be obvious for the Ukrainians here the armor is heavier than most of their wheeled APC’s and I don’t believe they have any APC type with a TI/GSR 50.
https://postlmg.cc/xqKNpbWM
(This was a little unusual from ALL the pictures I looked at as it came with a story.)
https://weaponsystems.net/system/123-BTR-82
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...l_Carrier_(APC)
https://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_82.htm

UKRAINE/ADD/BMD-4M (11)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 668 (or 341)/PVR MAR-APR 2022/START/MAY 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 333 & 345. //Heavier weapons package against both. As compared to Peer Unit 333 its better protected. Against Peer Unit 345 its FCS is almost superior.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmd_4m.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html

****** ORNX Reports Infantry Fighting Vehicles (1912, of which destroyed: 1210, damaged: 46, abandoned: 77, captured: 577) ******

UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-80A (61)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 211/PVR MAR04-DEC06 2022/START/AUG 2022 /NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 307.// Again this unit is better than its Ukrainian counterpart with its weapons configuration and heavier armor by offering a HEAT package.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/122-BTR-80A
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...icle_data.html
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_80a.htm

****** ORNX Reports Armoured Personnel Carriers (289, of which destroyed: 177, damaged: 5, abandoned: 12, captured: 95) ******

This concludes my Ukrainian capture list of Russian armor.

ODDS AND ENDS

UKRAINE/ADD/T-55S/ORIGIN/SLOVINIA/NO OOB/NEW BUILD/START JAN 2022/END DEC 2025/CREW 4/CARRY 0/SPEED 50 km/h/SWIM 0/EW 4 VRISS/RADIO 90/VISION TI/GSR 40/MG/105mm RO L7/RDS 36 (+UK SUPPLIED)/COAX 7.62mm/RDS 2800/ROOF 12.7mm (KORD?)/RDS 250 READY/NO ATGW/FC 45/LRF 22/STABILISER 4 OR 5/SURVIVABILITY 5/ NOTE: FCS HAS HUNTER KILLER FULL CAPIBILTY/NOTE: TO ASSIST IN NEXT VALUES USED UKRAINIAN UNITS 014 & 073 BASELINE/STEEL HF 50 HS 12 HR 6 TF 50 TS 18 TOP 10/HEAT 55 HS 15 HR 8/10 TF 55 TS 18 TOP 10/NOTE: THE CLOSEST MATCH IN TIME AND HAVING THE SUPER BLAZER ERA IS GB UNIT 062 CHALLENGER TES/ERA HF 15 HS 15 HR 4 TF 15 TS 15 TOP 10/UKRAINIAN SLAT ARMOR ON TANK REAR AREA see Ref 4/ROF 6.//I accept some of the above might change but I’ve done the best I can with the very limited information out there. The SUPER BLAZER ERA is (Page 6) stout even by today’s standards unsure what ERA Ukraine added or where. But you normally don’t go backwards.
SP and SPAA Developments Tread Post #240
https://militaryleak.com/2022/09/21/...ks-to-ukraine/
https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/th...-armed-forces/
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/produc...of%20the%20jet.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ks/ar-AA15WpCv
(This ref justifies START/UNIT IN TRAINING/Lead picture shows rear SLAT ARMOR “The new photos reveal recent additions to the M-55Ss: explosive reactive armor and slat armor on the hulls.”)

USMC/CHANGE/ALL FEP-T/UNITS 846, 847, 848, 849, 851 & 852/REMOVE CIWS TROPHY APS. // There were only 2-5 USMC M1A1 tanks involved in a joint test with the USA involving the “Proof of Concept” to determine the feasibility and testing of the TROPHY APS and to address any compatibility issues in mating our systems to it. The tests were successful HOWEVER the USMC was already in the beginning stages of PLAN 2030 which as we know now had the tanks near or at the top of the list to remove.
The USA proceeded onward and in a manner of speaking so did the USMC in preparing to send their tanks back to the USA and “Sun setting” all their armor and maintenace support units. As you will see below the “timeline” doesn't support APS.
https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us...-for-m1-tanks/
https://armyrecognition.com/april_20..._21504162.html
15 October 2019…
https://www.joint-forces.com/defence...y-aps-delivery
24 March 2020…
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...e-corps-tanks/
(Note front of the turret. No APS Sensor.)
21 JULY 2020…
https://www.businessinsider.com/mari...talions-2020-7
(Note the caption of top picture and turret as well.)
06 DEC 2020…
https://news.yahoo.com/tank-marines-...131331371.html
(Original Military.com article. Note picture same as above.)
08 January 2021…
https://www.defenceprocurementintern...d-leonardo-drs

I was going to do a little more here, but as my “Marine Buddy” knows I’ve been sitting on this for about 3 years now. Why now well assuming Andy and Don are still willing, it won’t be long before we’ll be “sun setting” ourselves. IF all goes well, you have to remember after this Patch, there’ll ONLY AT BEST THREE LEFT the FINAL one WITH Andy, Don and GOD willing WILL BE THE 2025-2026 Campaign (And besides Don, I know a special handful of others understand why I’ve called it a CAMPAIGN all these years.)

Lastly, I want to THANK Suhiir for trusting me after discussing it, to allow to build those tanks initially and some other things she ALLOWED me to do in her OOB (Don’t kid yourselves, it’s hers alright!) of course, there was a downside because we ended up having to redo to some extent almost every ABRAMS in the game in the 2019/2020 Campaign.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I will begin to wade through this later this week........

[cronos0738]

Thank you for all this valuable information Fastboat.
Does an icon exist for the M-55S by any chance?