Adamant Mod Discussion Thread - Page 31

JLS · #**301** October 27th, 2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The TDM AI files are much better basis than the stock AI files...

Fyron,
In regards to AI driver files.

TDM major files are a precise amalgamation of base se4 stock DATA and ONLY base se4 data.
---> (few if any Adamant Data interpetations)

AIC AI drivers are a amalgamation that depends on the cooperation of the base data AIC supplies.
The same applies to the precise and fine work that went into Rollos Devnul, PFKs Proportions, Tampa Bays Sound, FQM and the many others.

There is no way TDM, AIC or any mod AI driver files will work; even near 50% effective in Adamant. The file at base will not produce what you want intended, properly Defend when needed and attack when the correct opportune arises and there is much more.

Now if this is in-Forum politics or you desire the TDM label, then sure
.
I will open each of TDMs AI Files, then select all and then cut. In this way, you may say the AI started from a TDM file base.

However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use.

[ October 27, 2003, 13:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

Alneyan · #**302** October 27th, 2003, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed.

Tesco, you may use reactors to improve the range of your colonizers. I seem to recall from when I was in Adamant 010 than a Colonizer with 18 engines meant a speed of 2 with something like 2000 or 2500 supplies, or perhaps even more, if the other components are reactors.

Good luck to travel through these two empty systems though.

geoschmo · #**303** October 27th, 2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed.

If you are using AI this will cause problems. The AI will start using colony components on large warships to satisfy it's requirment for additional supply storage. If the mod is for humans only though this could work. Or the supply generation as Alyenan suggests should work as well.

Ed Kolis · #**304** October 27th, 2003, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use.

Uh, are you saying that a mod is useless without good AI files? I personally play SE4 almost exclusively multiplayer, because it's such a long, drawn-out game that I can never motivate myself to finish a single-player game; I need other people who are depending on me to play my empire

Fyron · #**305** October 27th, 2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:

quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The TDM AI files are much better basis than the stock AI files...

Fyron,
In regards to AI driver files.

Yes, the TDM AIs are precise... that is the whole point. The stock AI files are comparatively poorly written. Just converting them to be compatible with Adamant will result in equally poor AIs.

Changing TDM AIs to work in Adamant will require the same amount of work as converting the stock AIs (as all of the exact same conVersions are necessary in either case; look at SJ's AI Patcher for P&N, it can work on both stock AIs and custom AIs like TDM). Better to start with a strong foundation than a weak one.

It has nothing to do with "forum politics" or the "TDM label;" it just has to do with better AI files. And trust me, I know how the AI works (not the specific details, but in general).

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed.

Start up a game on medium tech, and you will see that it is in this regard similar to stock SE4's low tech. Again, I wanted "low tech start" to mean low tech start in Adamant...

Colony ships can get 2 systems over or so easily, but that's it. It would not make sense for ships using fission engines and such to be able to have a great range...

Geo, you could build the supplies in to the colony ship hull itself. In Adamant, the colony ship is 3300 kT, and the colony module is 3000 kT. Good luck fitting one on a non-colony ship.

[ October 27, 2003, 18:55: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS · #**306** October 27th, 2003, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

In regards to AI driver files.
Yes, the TDM AIs are precise... that is the whole point. The stock AI files are comparatively poorly written. Just converting them to be compatible with Adamant will result in equally poor AIs.

Changing TDM AIs to work in Adamant will require the same amount of work as converting the stock AIs (as all of the exact same conVersions are necessary in either case; look at SJ's AI Patcher for P&N, it can work on both stock AIs and custom AIs like TDM). Better to start with a strong foundation than a weak one.

It has nothing to do with "forum politics" or the "TDM label;" it just has to do with better AI files. And trust me, I know how the AI works (not the specific details, but in general).

OK fyron, what TDM AI would you recomend for what ADAMANT RACE...

And this is my final example.

Actually lets go with (A) our original Abbidon choice.
- -
If I add the Adamant weapons to there Design File and add what ever Adamant Facilities to that construction file and do NOT totally rebuild any TDM AI driver files from the bottom up; other then the added Adamant Weapons and Facilities etc.

- - -

Any player can make your Adamant AI based on se4 TDM drivers and your Adamant data COWER into:

Protectorate Treaty
Subjugation Treaty
Then Accept any Human Players Demand for surrender

Get this; it can probably be done WITHOUT any Human Player researching any not even one, existing sole Adamant tech and only building a FEW SHIPS; a matter of fact it is doubtful I even need to build a facility or start a new colony. And to boot; in simu play; I can do this all within 5 years, with most default game starts.

I know the players that will find the way and find it quick. How about you, please tell me if you know what Adamant data will allow us Human Players to Cower all your AI; with drivers that are tuned to another data source.

= = = = =

However, when playing TDM with the Stock se4 data that TDM is tuned with; and the same Drivers less your Adamant Weapons and Facilities, the TDM Abbi has and will rule most players.

[ October 27, 2003, 21:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron · #**307** October 28th, 2003, 12:00 AM

I think you missed my point... I never said just throw in TDM AIs and use them unaltered... of course that would not work. My point was that they are a better base to work from than the stock AIs, as they are written better. All of the weapon families are the same in Adamant as in stock, save the new Flak Cannons and a few new specialty weapons. Other component families are the same as well, except for armors, as there are a few more types of those. Facility families are identical as well, save for some new facilities, of which there are not many. The majority of the changes are tweaks of stock data (and of course duplicating loads of stuff for magic and organic races, though all family numbers were preserved in the duplications).

If you can take stock AI files and make them perform as well in Adamant as the TDM AIs do in stock (or better

), go ahead and do so. But, a lot of the same generic tweaks that are necessary to make the AI perform better in any mod are already done in the TDM AIs, so there would be less work involved...

It does not matter which race you pick. The plan for now is to get 3 sets of AI files (one for each race type) that work fairly well in the mod, and just port them to all the other AIs, so that some SP games could be played. Actually, now that I think about it, it might be necessary to edit more AIs than that, based on racial tech traits.

[ October 27, 2003, 22:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS · #**308** October 28th, 2003, 12:06 AM

The AI drivers have to be totally re-built from the Bottom up to except even (Some) of what you would like them to accept.

I will need any new general information that is different from what is described in Abbi�s AI_General file.

Your desired AI_Strategies file in case I need to tweak while testing (for Abbi specifics only).

Note:
AI Files that do not have to be rebuilt.
Abbidon_AI_Speech

Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?

[ October 27, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron · #**309** October 28th, 2003, 12:27 AM

It's up to you...

The General.txt file needs the race type and HW planet type traits added as the first advanced traits (they cost 0, so if added as the Last ones, they will not be selected...). Just set up their characteristics and traits as close to what they are in stock as possible.

I believe the latest Default_Strategies.txt file form the Ultimate Strategies Mod is in Adamant. Use that one.

Quote:

Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?

Can't think of any exploits that are not already possible in stock SE4... if someone wants to exploit the AI as much as possible to cheat their way to victory, that is their problem, not mine.

[ October 27, 2003, 22:28: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS · #**310** October 28th, 2003, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It's up to you...

The General.txt file needs the race type and HW planet type traits added as the first advanced traits (they cost 0, so if added as the Last ones, they will not be selected...). Just set up their characteristics and traits as close to what they are in stock as possible.

I believe the latest Default_Strategies.txt file form the Ultimate Strategies Mod is in Adamant. Use that one.

quote:
Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?

Can't think of any exploits that are not already possible in stock SE4... if someone wants to exploit the AI as much as possible to cheat their way to victory, that is their problem, not mine.

If you want your AI to be great in multiplayer or a Week End LAN party, you can not adopt this philosophy

[ October 27, 2003, 22:31: Message edited by: JLS ]