Madness - 24 players, MA+LA, CBM 1.4 (running)

[archaeolept]

yeah, it is correct to post the agreement from the PM if it has been violated.

[Incabulos]

Top Down.

Originally Posted by Zeldor
Greetings from LA T'ien Ch'i. It looks like you are in a valley south of me. MA Arco is dead, he is just flying around with his pretender, you can kill him

I'd like to offer you NAP, with an option to upgrade it to alliance later. I'd be rather interested in eliminating other threats east of me. I'd offer that border: 256-257-238-239 and NE of that for me, south of that for you, including the important city at 217. My offer includes forging of items at base cost etc. And I could help you with your southern neighbour, through caves.

Originally Posted by Incabulos
We offer you a NAP of 3 or 5 for this agreement. This is on condition that you have no NAP with Caelum and will not seek a NAP with caelum. With their flying troops they can take great advantage of bottlenecks in thesse lands and so we need to eliminate them early.
The Stone Hag

Originally Posted by Zeldor
NAP5 sounds good. Elimination of Caelum is my goal too, that's why I want to have good relations with you and focus on them

Originally Posted by Incabulos
I hope you are clearing those provinces for us and will not be leaving any PD in them otherwise you are already breaking our agreed terms and thereby nullifying the NAP.

256-257-238-239
236 and 237 are clearly not northeast of that border.

Were are things of the feywild and do not hesitate to take insult. Our capricious nature is not to be tested

Originally Posted by Zeldor
Well, that provinces were owned by MA Arcoscephale. I killed his pretender and cleaned the game from his presence. You had no armies nearby to do the job.

I think that some payment for me cleaning that provinces, killing Arco pretender and getting rid of his dominion, would be adequate, so you could take that 2 provinces back and my army could freely go towards Caelum.

Pangaea had awe satyrs stealthed in the provinces and were in place to take the provinces. The provinces would have been simple to take considering the level of defence that was in the provinces (5 units or so in each of very low caliber PD). Compare to the PD that was in place from TC after probing it with a harpy it was clear there was no peaceful intention.

After my warning about placing PD, which was sent in plenty of time for the turn to be sent without placing PD I felt I had casus belli when I discovered there was in fact PD placed there the turn following the warning.

[Zeldor]

You are the one violating the NAP. I have only grabbed more provinces because you lost them to Ma Arcoscephale. I took care of his pretender, that you couldn't kill, and grabbed his remaining provs, to kill him [as you had no armies able to do so]. I was willing to honor our agreement, but I only got a threatening PM, which made me worry about possible good relationship. I never got a reply on my PM, where I suggested giving you that provs back in exchange for some small reparation for using my armies to kill enemy that was conquering your provs and killed your pretender.

And now you come with stealthy armies, that must have been preparing that attack for many turns. So it looks like you planned to launch that attack from the beginning

[archaeolept]

it is not up to one party of an agreement to decide whether or not he is "willing to honour our agreement", threatening PM or no. If a border was agreed upon, there is no right to hold on to territory beyond it; perhaps putting up pd might be a military necessity if arco was counter-attacking, but asking for payment for lands which are not yours clearly violates the prior agreement.

the existence of stealthy armies is not a violation of a NAP. You cannot use a belief that an opponent was going to violate a NAP as rationale for you yourself breaking it.

IMO

[Zeldor]

I never asked for money, just suggested it There was only some PD there and I never stopped him from taking that provs back He just attacked with one scout even before I could read his PM and change anything before hosting.

Anyway, I'm fine with killing Pangaea Action is always good

[KissBlade]

Apparently both sides agree to war then! PS. Caelum, looks like you're eyed by TC as well!

On another note, completely unrelated of all this, I will trade 10 gems of any sort (save death or earth as I have no such income) for 2 luck pendants!

[Evilhomer]

The peaceful nation of midgard is looking to trade gems. We have a need for more air and earth. in return we offer all other types of gems, aswell as various items we can forge.

We also have a need for 5 shields of gleaming gold. Kb, if you still need those lucky pendants and can pay in air, send me a pm, I already have spare pendants so I can send them this turn.

[KissBlade]

I really didn't want to part with my air gems but =\ I guess we can make a deal. Will send this turn. remember, I am the laughable nation of Bogarus. -.- Who are also peaceful.

[Wokeye]

The Vans welcome the hosts of jaguar-men descending on our lands as the coats make such lovely rugs. It's a shame the eagle men are not chickens, as we'd prefer to eat them on our saturday picnic lunches on the fjord.

[Apsophos]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

You are the one violating the NAP. I have only grabbed more provinces because you lost them to Ma Arcoscephale. I took care of his pretender, that you couldn't kill, and grabbed his remaining provs, to kill him [as you had no armies able to do so]. I was willing to honor our agreement, but I only got a threatening PM, which made me worry about possible good relationship. I never got a reply on my PM, where I suggested giving you that provs back in exchange for some small reparation for using my armies to kill enemy that was conquering your provs and killed your pretender.

And now you come with stealthy armies, that must have been preparing that attack for many turns. So it looks like you planned to launch that attack from the beginning

Juste came back to this thread. So my pretender managed to cause a little bit of chaos after all?