Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

[Alneyan]

Your link has your preferences about how many Posts should fit in a page, and the order of the Posts, so it only works with Users with the same preferences as yourself (the default ones). I know it brings me to the beginning of the post when I click on your link.

I think my link should now be working, but I haven't tested it yet while being logged out. The problem in my previous links was that I didn't mention on which thread I was (that is, I didn't give the number of the first post in the thread), which is something your own link did. Then my own link merely removes the part about preferences from your link, and it *should* work fine for everybody.

[Alneyan]

The fixed link does not work indeed, though it looks like anything with the post number works so long as the creator of the link is logged in.

The post in question is about 35 Posts down in the thread. But for the sake of simplicity, I will paste it back here (giving its position in terms of page will not help Users without different settings).


These are the following changes to the Pretenders v2.0

There are some things which are limited by the Modding Tools availiable for Illwinter. One of which is a redistricting of Pretenders, along with other statistical, auto-summoning, battle-summoning, certain unit modifications, global modifications and others. The Conceptual Balance series is my concept of Balance of the Game to allow *everything* to be a viable and game mechanical worthy choice not specifically for theme. While there is no "best" there are certain Pretenders with certain nations better suited to various strategies. With this in mind, here are the changes.

** denote changes from the Last Version

Weapons (weapon nbr / weapon name / changes)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(61) Fire Breath +1 AOE
(62) Bile +2 AOE
(254) Plague Breath +1 Ammo +1 AOE
(4) Lance +1 Length
(357) Light Lance +1 Length

New Weapons:
(999) Wing Buffet dmg -5, att 0, def 1, length 5, aoe 1 (flail, bonus)
(998) Roar dmg -5, att 0, def 0, length 5, aoe 1 (flail, bonus)

Pretenders (monster nbr / monster name / changes)

Monster:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(973) Ancient Kraken +50 PR, +50 CR
(779) Divine Serpent Pathcost: 30
(265) Dragon (blue) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(266) Dragon (green) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(216) Dragon (red) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(226) Great Sage (r. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, **+Mountain Survival, +Wasteland Survival
(267) Frost Father (b. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Sailing, **+Mountain Survival
(268) Master Druid (g. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, **+Swamp Survival
(644) Dracolich **Basecost: 150, +8 Prot, +4 Prec, +Immortal, +Wing Buffet
(645) Bog Mummy **+25 FR, +Immortal
(Dracolich 2nd shape)
(462) Manticore +8 Prot, +2 Att, +2 Def, +Wing Buffet
(294) Nerid Basecost: 75, +Mounted
(608) Phoenix +Fire
(334) Golden Naga Basecost: 90, -2 Enc, +Mounted, +Body Slot, Dominion: 2
(157) Naga Basecost: 90, -2 Enc, +Mounted, +Body Slot, Dominion: 2, Stealth 0
(655) Scorpion King +Mounted, +Body Slot
(661) Shedu +2 Def, -2 Enc, +Wing Buffet, +Earth
(978) Great Black Bull Pathcost: 60, -2 Enc
(979) Great White Bull Pathcost: 60, -2 Enc
(269) Wyrm Basecost: 50, +4 Def

(138) Medusa +4 HP
(383) Prince of Death +100 CR, +100 PR
(215) Virtue +Astral, -Air


Giant:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(501) All-Father Pathcost: 50
(955) Asynja Basecost: 100, -2 Air, +Astral, +Nature, +Glamour, +Stealth 25
(156) Cyclops **+20% Forge Bonus
(109) Dagon +6 Def
(385) Daughter of the Land Basecost: 75, +Earth
(606) Great Mother -1 Enc
(603) Father of Serpents +3 Def, +2 Prec, Poison Cloud: 6
(858) Jade Emperor -1 Enc, +2 Prec
(964) Lord of Fertility +Awe +2, +Nature
(957) Lord of the Desert Sun +3 Def, +2 Prec, +Roar
(388) Lord of the Gates **Basecost: 75, +Fear, +Astral
(604) Lord of the Night Basecost: 125
(812) Lord of the Wild Basecost: 125
(387) Mother of Lions +3 Def, +Stealth 0, +Roar, +Nature
(961) Son of the Sea **Basecost: 100, -Water, +Earth, +Mapmove
(386) Son of the Sun (red) +2 Fire Gems
(384) Son of the Sun (white) Basecost: 75, +Fire
(602) Titan (Male) Basecost: 110, +1 Att, +1 Def, +1 Prec, +Mountain Survival, +Mapmove
(600) Titan (Female) +Nature
(652) Void Lord -Head Slot, Dominion: 3


Immobile:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(958) Colossal Head +Nature, +Blood
(1025) Divine Glyph Basecost: 75, +Immortal
(656) Fountain of Blood Pathcost: 30, +10 HP, +3 Blood Slaves
(158) Oracle Pathcost: 30, +10 HP, +2 Astral Gems
(657) Monolith +2 Nature Gems
(472) Sacred Statue Basecost: 30, Pathcost: 20, -Astral,


Human (rainbow):
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(401) ***** Queen +5 Prec, +Stealth 0
(402) Crone (BQ 2nd shape) -3 Enc, +3 Prec
(246) Freak Lord +11 HP, -2 Enc, +Nature
(245) Arch Druid +11 HP, -2 Enc
(248) Arch Mage (Water) +11 HP, -2 Enc
(244) Arch Mage Basecost: 25, +11 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 2
(509) Arch Seraph Basecost: 50, +8 HP
(249) Crone = Hag Basecost: 25, +6 HP, -2 Enc, +3 Prec, +Iron Crutch
(250) Frost Father
= Rime Mariner Basecost: 45, +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Sailing
(270) Master Druid Basecost: 45, +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Swamp Survival
(251) Great Sage Basecost: 25, +8 HP, -2 Enc
(485) Great Enchantress Basecost: 45, +7 HP, -2 Enc, +Ethereal
(873) Great Seer of the Deeps Basecost: 45, +9 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 2, +Water
(486) Great Warlock -2 Enc, Dominion: 2, +Quarterstaff, +Fire
(550) Master Alchemist +9 HP, -2 Enc, +2 Prec, +Earth
(857) Smoking Mirror +5 HP, -2 Enc
(858) Smoking Mirror (Jaguar) +16 HP, -1 Enc, +7 Prec, +13 MR
(500) Skratti = Elder Skratti -1 Enc, +1 Att, +3 Def, +Blood
(653) Serpent King **+8 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 3
(654) Serpent King (Serpent) +16 HP, -2 Enc, +3 Def, +2 Prec
(874) Divine Emperor -2 Enc, Dominion: 3


(872) Ghost King Basecost: 110, Pathcost: 30
(180) Master Lich = Arch Lich **+1 Death Gems, +Disease Cloud 6
(179) Lich +50 FR
(395) Lich Queen +50 FR
(320) Saurolich +50 FR
(643) Bog Mummy +25 FR



Unedited Pretenders:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(607) Baphomet
(1026) Carrion Dragon
(601) Lady of Fortune
(120) Moloch
(956) Mother of Tuathas
(499) Nataraja
(605) Son of Niefel
(159) Sphinx
(862) Vampire Queen
(546) Void Lurker

[Pocus]

when the items mod will be released? I would be rather interested to see if some cost are upped a bit (namely sanguine rod to slow rampant blood harvest, and associating soul contract with an astral cost eg)

[Endoperez]

Why ASTRAL cost to Soul Contract? Shouldn't that be Fire?

[Zen]

I actually have a beta of the rest of the mods. I haven't released them due to time and effort constraints. I may get up the energy to put on some finishing touches and send them out for people to play.

[tinkthank]

Thank you for this very nice mod! I am sure that is a lot of work. Worth it!

(I have read through about 60% of the comments on this exceptionally long thread, but my connection crashed at one point and I had to restart and I came back after 2 days and forgot where I left off, I think I missed a bit.)

Would you mind a tiny bit of feedback/questions?

- I am unsure if I have the most up-to-date material, despite just having re-DLed from your site; in the .zips I have, there are now no readmes, and we are explicitly asked to check those for info.

- I love about 85% of your changes to the pretenders. There are great niches opening up there. (Maybe there could be a new pretender, related to the lich: the Niche?) The niches I failed to see (or the balance-related issues therein) which have not already been beaten to a dead horse state on this thread were:
- The D.Glyph. What are you envisioning? I had always liked him as an evil lurker, and now he is... what? Combat hungry?
- What was wrong with the Octopus in the heating vent?
- Did I miss the discussion on the Phoenix? I played him with his new strength, and it seemed just too easy for Marignon to get a F9 A4 now. I had often chosen the P. before, and although your mod opens up so many new flavors, it seems that if I am wanting Fire and Air (or Fire and Air and more) and immortality, I dont see too many other options. Why the f2? Have you considered raising his new magic path learning cost to 100 then?

With the new scales, the general twist of which I really like, I am not finished, but I when monkeying around, I found in general that I no longer find Order appealing to races which do even a tiny bit of patrolling or have any troops with armor or which may be interested in luck. Actually, I found with Machaka, Ryleh, Abysia default, Mari default, and Man LoT that Production helped me much more than Order, and since Growth synergizes now so well (if you are thinking about taking any luck -- and now there is even more reason to actually want to do so: Synergy #3) with Prod for income, that I found Order to be unappealing. I am not saying this is "bad", but since I am not done with testing yet, I dont want to put this in too rigid a normative framework. I just wanted to know what you and the others think: If it turns out that Order is actually unappealing, then it could be a no-brainer. I am not saying it is so now. I will have to see by tweaking your mod myself maybe back to Order 7 and giving it another run-through or 17.

Anyhow, thanks for your effort and also your time in reading and replying here.

[Zen]

ScalesMod 1.2 availiable at the webpage.

Stock are the unmodified values and Mod are the modified values replacing the stock. Rareevents is the likelyhood of the higher caliber of Luck events (Random Events are divided into two types, common and rare) per event.

Code:

---

Scale               Stock           Mod



Productivity/Sloth  Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Resources 10%   Resources 15%

Growth/Death        Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Population .02% Population .03%

Luck/Misfortune     Event 10%       Event 13%

                    RareEvent 15%   RareEvent 20%

---

Zen tested, Zen approved.

[Zooko]

a sloppy and incomplete summary of changes in spellmod 1.8:


Summon Cave Drake Cost: E8 (E11)
Summon Fire Drake Cost: F8 (F11)
Summon Ice Drake Cost: W8 (W11)
Summon Sea Serpent Cost: W8 (W11)
Summon Animals Cost: N10 (N20)

Summon Air Elemental Cost: 100 ft + 1A
Summon Earth Elemental Cost: 100 ft + 1E
Summon Fire Elemental Cost: 100 ft + 1F
Summon Water Elemental Cost: 100 ft + 1W

Earth Elementals of any size now have prot 15. Dunno what they used to
have.
Fire Elementals now have the following hp for the different sizes:

30, 27, 24, 21, 18, 15

dunno what they used to have. Elementals have more hp than you think,
because if there is 30-hp elemental and the enemy whacks it with 50
damage, then there is a 27 hp elemental left! Earth Elementals are
cool because they regen, too.

Water Elementals now have the following defense:

17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12

Ice Elementals now have the following protection:

15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10

Ice Elementals now have the following weapons different than standard:

(831) Ice Elemental +2 Icicle Fist, -2 Fist
(832) Ice Elemental +2 Icicle Fist, -1 Fist
(833) Ice Elemental +1 Icicle Fist, -1 Fist
(844) Ice Elemental +1 Icicle Fist, -1 Fist
(855) Ice Elemental +1 Icicle Fist, -1 Fist
(866) Ice Elemental +1 Icicle Fist, -1 Fist

Ice Elementals now have cold, "iceprot", fire resistance -50, coldres
100, amphibian, magicbeing, neednoteat, poisonres 100. Dunno what they
used to have.

Living Fire, cost 100 ft + 1F
Living Clouds, cost 100 ft + 1A
Living Water, cost 100 ft + 1W
Living Earth, cost 100 ft + 1E

Revive Bane Lord Cost: D15 (D10)
Raven Feast Cost: A2 (A5)
Contact Harbinger Cost: S20 (S25)
Angelic Host Cost: S45 (S50)
Ether Gate Cost: S80 (S90)

Wild Hunt: research level 7 (?), Cost: G40 (?)
Ghost Riders: pathlevel 6 (?)
Enchanted Forest: Cost: 50G (?)
Tartarian Gate: Cost 25? (?)

(469) King of Mountains (Oreigenes) -1 Enc, +Regeneration (10 %)
(906) King of Deeper Earth (Barathrus) -1 Enc
(470) Father Illearth (Pedoseion) -1 Enc

(403) Horned Serpent +12 HP, +2 Prot, +5 AP
(628) Great Lion +8 HP, +3 Def
(924) Iron Pig +9 MR, +2 Att, +3 Def
(438) Kraken +3 Att, +100 PR, +Recuperation

(518) Troll +3 Att, goldcost 15
(519) Troll King +3 Att
(564) Sea Troll +3 Att, -Fist, +Claw (29), goldcost 15
(580) Sea King +3 Att

(932) Hama Dryad +10 Prot, -25 FR, -2 Mapmove, +someweaponidon'tknowwhat
(578) Bog Beast +1 Mapmove
(925) Tarrasque +4 Prot, +4 Prec, +1 Mapmove, +Roar

(361) Vine Man +7 Prot, +3 Def, -25 FR
(362) Vine Ogre +5 Prot, +5 Def, -25 FR
(931) Ivy King +3 Prot, +5 Def, +5 Prec

(511) Winter Wolf +5 Prot, +2 Str, +Stealth
(512) Fall Bear +5 Prot, +3 Att, +Claw
(513) Spring Hawk +2 HP, +5 Prot
(515) Summer Lion +5 Prot, +Fireshield (weak)

(534) Corpse Construct +10 HP, +5 Prot, +10 MR, +4 Att, +5 Def, +100 SR, +someweapondunnowhat
(314) Mandragora +Entangle
(476) Lumber Construct +4 Att, -Fist, +Crush

(626) Fallen Angel +4 Att, +Divine Garb
(464) Harbinger +3 Att, +Divine Garb
(465) Arch Angel +4 Att, +Divine Garb
(543) Angel of the Host +4 Att, +Divine Garb

(399) Divine Garb 9 Prot, 0 Enc, 0 Def

(776) Tartarian Monstrum +2 Misc Slots, +Wing Buffet
(777) Tartarian Monstra +Mounted, +Body Slot

(980) Vengeful Treelord +10 Str, +10 Att, +2 Prec, +25 FR, +100 PR, Ldr 75-0-75, +Regeneration (10 %), +Recuperation, +Entangle +3 Nature Gems, +4 someotherkindofgems, +Reinvigoration 5

Well this is taking too long. This list is incomplete.

--Z

Hi there,
May I suggest another minor change in the spells ? Its about Melancholia. Seems very weak in comparison with the other 'artillery' spells like Leprosy or Murdering Winter. Kills 5-10% of the units (IF ordinary units with 10 or 11 MR and mrl, less if elite). Kills 1 or 2 dominion candles. Temporary shifts dominion toward sloth.
Frankly I've never seen this spell in a game, and I even cant imagine any use for the price...
So I suggest to reduce the cost to 10 or 12 gems (instead of 20) and Earth4 (or even 3) as requirement.
Any thought ?

[Alneyan]

Zen said:
I actually have a beta of the rest of the mods. I haven't released them due to time and effort constraints. I may get up the energy to put on some finishing touches and send them out for people to play.

Do you think the item and units mod could be released in the near future? I was thinking of creating a sort of experiment game using all your mods, but that would probably be better with all the mods.