Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Try a test with machinegun only armed helos vs infantry.

Their utility vs vehicles has never been a problem as far as I'm concerned.

Not testing but l think there are 2 issues.
Firstly vehicle mounted MGs do not as far as I am aware have a blast radius so they fo not perform as well as an infantry weapon.
Secondly MG armed helos tend to have fairly poor stats like rangefinder & fire control.

In real life idealy what range would a MG armed helo start strafing at?
Same thing goes for the Apache videos what range are they engaging at? Virtualy all of them there is no AAA they are hovering or very slow moving.

Tried to find a vid of an Apache taking RPG fire from a cragy mountain, took them a while to locate the 2 targets & get them due to manuvering & the good cover as in big rocks.

Regarding MGs I dont have an issue with how they work, yes they tend to cause more suppresion than kills but on the whole they kill better than an infantry squad.
However once the unit is no longer in good order or if its doing something silly like tank riding they can be effective.
Current game I have at least a infantry company approaching along a lightly guarded flank. Moved 2 machine gun units to slow firing at around 17 to 20 hexes.
First couple of turns not much effect pinned or broke a few units with little or no losses to them but now they are all grouped together I am picking targets that have adjacent units. Virtualy every shot gets a kill in the effected area and the advance has ground to a halt, remember a hex is 50m & I have stopped an advance over a 500m front & am now picking them off.

In the game infantry manned MGs are very good for the above & letting your squads engage in relative safety after the MGs fire because the targets have their heads down.
If you want to kill quicker especially in good cover use GLs but ammo is a big issue normaly.
Best infantry killer though tends to be a modern autocannon equiped IFV parked up out of RPG range, makes attacking dug in targets a far simpler process due to their high to hit values.

[IronDuke99]

In my opinion SF machine guns, manned by good troops, should be able to mostly stop leg infantry movement, in good visibility and in open terrain, at about 400 yards at the very least, ie, infantry should go to ground and pretty much not be able to get forward without cover, until the SF MG is taken out. Bear in mind that most assault rifles are total rubbish at much beyond 300 yards, and that they are also weaker at penetrating cover than rounds like the 7.62mm NATO or older .303 British. (The main reason the British reintroduced a 7.62mm rifle for limited issue to infantry platoons a few years back).

I will also stick to what I said originally; all gunship helicopters should be better at killing, and routing, leg infantry than they are now, especially less well trained forces lacking much in the way of air defence. With earlier, medium and heavy MG armed helicopters, lacking advanced sighting systems, this should naturally only apply in fairly open terrain.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'll leave you with the following two videos. note that on some of attack scenes the enemy isn't even moving. It is safe to say 1) These Apache's are quiet. and 2) The ranges are out there, this is especially apparent in the second/third videos again note the box on the bottom center of of the target screen, look to the upper right corner that's your range marker to target. I would think in yards as we tend to indicate meters when used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwnYTfDdGu0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XryPZvCpcic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaufhZv84Gk

Go for a ride in a UK APACHE...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vMDy7X94fc

The last is of the AC-130 gunship from the first video lower left you'll see the weapons selected area (From a newer version.)showing rounds expended as well. Note the weapons firing discipline. Also remember the AC-130 carries a full armory for replenishment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5lW9K_-VG0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOG9GHVV0c

How it all works...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOe-TEJlV4E

How tough is the A-10? One pilots story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7JM82fa5ZY

Also that Thread mentioned earlier is in WinSPMBT main forum page. It's on Page 6 top as "Helicopter armor" started by sabresandy.

Regards,
Pat

[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Go for a ride in a UK APACHE...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vMDy7X94fc

Wow - that's quite a ride! Feel sorry for the poor (German?) civilians being buzzed, don't think they would be allowed to do NoE flying over populated parts of UK.

P.S. are you sure its a Brit crew? Don't think our crews wear camo flight suits?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

Wow - that's quite a ride! Feel sorry for the poor (German?) civilians being buzzed, don't think they would be allowed to do NoE flying over populated parts of UK.

P.S. are you sure its a Brit crew? Don't think our crews wear camo flight suits?

It would appear they do.......



http://www.airspacemag.com/daily-pla...-fly-87132849/

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

Wow - that's quite a ride! Feel sorry for the poor (German?) civilians being buzzed, don't think they would be allowed to do NoE flying over populated parts of UK.

P.S. are you sure its a Brit crew? Don't think our crews wear camo flight suits?

Nope don't think that is a British Apache. Mind you I've known very much more annoying helicopters than that one (in far, far, larger numbers) flying around for hours on end covering the Melbourne Grand Prix in Australia, and you get that bloody annoying F1 whine too. And those helicopters are not doing a damn thing to defend anyone from anything...

This is a British Apache.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZaV81BmJ4

[Suhiir]

Well ... that's definitely NOE flying.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Ahh s**t, posted the wrong *&^gg%# one! Thanks for the catch I guess that would make that a Eurocopter TIGER variant. Thanks for the catch Don!
http://www.military-today.com/helico...pter_tiger.htm

Back to writing Christmas Cards for the Ireland gang. Thanks for the diversion!!

By the way can we "say" **** here, or just write about it!?!

Regards,
Pat


Guess not couldn't remember, guess I'll just keep writing about.

[shahadi]

As for game improvements of the attack helos, I would like to be able to have the game return the hit percentage of the weapon selected instead of the weapon in slot #1. With the attack helos, inactivating all weapons save the missiles, the game returns the hit chance of weapon slot #1, normally the cannon.

I am not sure how it could be done, however, selecting weapons using the "W" key maybe a start. When a weapon in selected using that key, the game will return the selected weapon's hit percentage to target. This saves the player from having to calculate using pencil and paper the hit percentage taken as a ratio of weapons max range and range to target.

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[DRG]

OK this is a question for everybody but "shahadi".........how may of you actually......... "

Originally Posted by shahadi

calculate using pencil and paper the hit percentage taken as a ratio of weapons max range and range to target.

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??

Those calcs are and will remain a general estimation of overall hit chance to give the player a rough idea if they are wasting their shots or if there is some chance of a hit and you could get a report back of 100% but that is only based on the targeting unit---it does not take into account what the target might do based on it's experience, morale, damage etc etc....that isn't taken into account until the shot is fired.

IDK about Andy but I rarely....and I MEAN rarely...pay any attention to that message at all

Don