Endgame Diversity Mod - v1.2 released

[LDiCesare]

Ok. I'll ask a silly question about the Kraken.
As far as I understand it, its only role is to make it even harder for land nations to go underwater, isn't it?

I mean, it's easy to summon by water nations. They have tons of water gems, and underwater labs that are easily defended in forts they can build.
How can a land nation summmon one?
First, the land nation must get underwater.
Second, it must build/get a lab there.
Third it must have enough gems and the mages needed.
Krakens are great underwater. They are powerful, regen like hell when given a ring, and have magic paths to help themselves. Only underwater nations can summon them en masse and easily.

In my opinion, the barrier between land and water is the single most annoying feature if Dominions, and krakens just make that worse.
I'd suggest removing them from the mod or providing an amphibious unit that can be summoned only from water and/or one only from land (read Grendelkin).
(But then, I should probably stop playing games with water nations.)

[Wrana]

Well, I'd say the barrier between underwater and land nations is both thematic and interesting to both use and overcome (what I don't like much is how sailing is handled. But so it goes). And getting underwater is quite possible, e.g., through undead thugs & troops. Making krakens isn't easy for land nations, but often possible and sometimes useful. But you can win without them.

[llamabeast]

The barrier between land and water is not an issue I've been interested to address in this mod. If you would like it addressed, I suggest checking out Burnsaber's excellent Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod. As for the kraken, its role is just to add another interesting underwater summon; nothing more, nothing less.

[Fantomen]

I am currently using the great kraken as a means for a land nation (LA caelum) to get a foothold underwater. I think a lot of land nations are going to have spare water gems left simply *because* they aren't water powers, and therefore won't use them much.

Suddenly this pile of water gems become useful when going underwater, just get a watermage, take a water province, cram out some krakens and you have yourself a pretty good start.

[LDiCesare]

I thought I would use water gems for grendelkins. But indeed I should have used them for krakens instead. I just thought the grendelkins were worth something, which I don't think they are.
Water nations will also match your kraken with 2 of their own, so I'm not sure it helps land nations in any way. Troll kings have the good idea of being summonable from land for instance, and seem a better deal until you've got an underwater lab, which can be problematic in itself.

[Squirrelloid]

Krakens were better when they randomed an X2 sorcery, because it could be used for magic diversity. I wouldn't waste gems on the current kraken.

[Kheldron]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Krakens were better when they randomed an X2 sorcery, because it could be used for magic diversity. I wouldn't waste gems on the current kraken.

Well we'll know soon enough if it's a waste won't we?

[Lingchih]

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

I thought I would use water gems for grendelkins. But indeed I should have used them for krakens instead. I just thought the grendelkins were worth something, which I don't think they are.

Heh, Grendelkins not worth it eh? The single most powerful unit in the mod, and not worth anything?

Sure, if you send them out naked, they get cut up eventually. You don't send them out naked... you send them out fully geared.

Stupid Cesare.

[LDiCesare]

Your supposition that someone would send grendelkins naked anywhere is astounding.
Did you actually use some grendelkins, fully kitted, and use them with success?
I kitted some of them fully, and they performed VERY badly.
I will not waste water gems on them, because water gems are better used on getting underwater, with troll kings for instance.
If I want an SC, I'll stick with Tartarians. They are cheaper and pften have useful magical paths, don't need as much in terms of elemental resistances or reinvigoration, are neither much harder to research nor to cast.

Did you actually use them in some game? Did they perform well? Were they cost-effective? How do you feel that they can't swim? Did you try to send some of them underwater just to see how they crawl down there to the point of being unable to even reach their opponent before routing and dying?

And please don't insult people.

[Squirrelloid]

Kheldron, you got me all excited about a big showdown for this Inversions turn! And then... nothing! I'll tell you where you can put that Kraken!