Conceptual Balance Mod v1.92 - Page 36

Immaculate · #1 April 24th, 2012, 10:36 PM

two demonbreds use them on my commanders during assinations and the amulet kills all my bodyguards and my guy runs. thats not too OP... well, yeah, sometimes it is... but its my SP experience that made it look pretty tough.

kianduatha · #2 April 25th, 2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immaculate

two demonbreds use them on my commanders during assinations and the amulet kills all my bodyguards and my guy runs. thats not too OP... well, yeah, sometimes it is... but its my SP experience that made it look pretty tough.

Remember that every Demonbred he makes is one non-fire caster he will never see, which is huge for EA Abysia.

I think some fancy scripting on your part can also help to deal with this--don't have one group of bodyguards then. Arrange it so the demonbred will hit a single target first to deal with his aoe and you will suddenly stop having problems.

legowarrior · #3 April 25th, 2012, 05:01 PM

I am curious, do people use the Ryujin a lot as the LA Jomon. We have a MA Mod which allows people to hire them from the capital, and people argue that they don't see much need for them. I'd like to point out, that the MA Jomon also has only slow moving mages, like LA Jomon, and are similar in many way, so the Ryujin play the same role for the MA Jomon as the LA Jomon.

rdonj · #4 April 25th, 2012, 11:30 PM

It's harder to use them as LA Jomon because of the UW fort requirement, but they're absolutely used and useful, in both nations. Having super-mobile battlemages is a Big Deal, and ryujin give you access to a couple of powerful spells that are difficult for you elsewise. Saigu are a better deal for you for just plain path access, but make no mistake that Ryujin are a powerful, if pricy, aspect of the jomonese arsenal.

earcaraxe · #5 April 29th, 2012, 05:38 PM

wow, i find it a helluva idea!

(edit: not sure it would make the game "better", but its kinda idea that spawns interesting discussions)

llamabeast · #6 April 29th, 2012, 07:22 PM

It is a design principle of dom3 (as opposed to dom2), and of CBM in turn, that diversification should in general not be trivial. This helps to maintain the thematic differences between nations.

A gem generator which required one gem type to produce another would undermine this design principle.

The same principle also explains the generally limited paths available to EDM summons.

Torgon · #7 April 29th, 2012, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llamabeast

It is a design principle of dom3 (as opposed to dom2), and of CBM in turn, that diversification should in general not be trivial. This helps to maintain the thematic differences between nations.

A gem generator which required one gem type to produce another would undermine this design principle.

The same principle also explains the generally limited paths available to EDM summons.

Seems like a good principal, but it doesn't really seem to be applied consistently. Why is it that diversity is hard, except for death nations? The only summon-able mages in the game with any diversity are all down death or have some death component.

Corinthian · #8 April 29th, 2012, 05:43 PM

Funny you should mention that Bat/man, because the water global: "The Maelstrom" already works like that. Although most gems(15) you get are water gems, you also get 5 astral pearls and one of each other gem types I think.

Also gem gen globals are not as destabilizing as gem gen items as they are not anonymous and they can be stopped much easier. Furthermore, a nation with many globals might get ganged upon because of it. And because there can only be one global of the same kind in a game it can shake up a stalemate.

Finalgenesis · #9 April 29th, 2012, 09:42 PM

I think the key word is "non-trivial". Diversification is still present, just non-trivial. most path more or less have some and it's definitely non-trivial.

Diversity summons are mostly combinations of high research, high cost, cross path. Death's diversification specialty definitely have these elements in spades.

For example, Spectral mage, which can be verrry expensive rolling paths you need for a relatively low path level. The hiddens are all cross path and a bit out of the way. Tarts which are probably foremost in people's mind is both cross path (nature), end research, and somewhat expensive to get paths you want (all them restore soul and rolling good titans add up). Still, I see that as death's specialty, raising the dead with knowledge of other paths.

That's one aspect of dom3 I really like, that the 8 paths are so diverse from each other and each with useful/meaningful specialties of their own.

Torgon · #10 April 30th, 2012, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finalgenesis

I think the key word is "non-trivial". Diversification is still present, just non-trivial. most path more or less have some and it's definitely non-trivial.

Diversity summons are mostly combinations of high research, high cost, cross path. Death's diversification specialty definitely have these elements in spades.

For example, Spectral mage, which can be verrry expensive rolling paths you need for a relatively low path level. The hiddens are all cross path and a bit out of the way. Tarts which are probably foremost in people's mind is both cross path (nature), end research, and somewhat expensive to get paths you want (all them restore soul and rolling good titans add up). Still, I see that as death's specialty, raising the dead with knowledge of other paths.

That's one aspect of dom3 I really like, that the 8 paths are so diverse from each other and each with useful/meaningful specialties of their own.

I guess its just sort of a pet peeve of mine regarding dom 3. I wouldn't mind it if this was death's specialty, raising makes with knowledge of other paths. The problem is that it's not like death can do it particularly well, and the other paths just have middling success at it. Its that death is the only way to do it, period. There is no cross path magic diversity outside of death (or a spell with death as some component). It forces a bunch of nations that otherwise would have really no reason to go into death down that path. It often forces you to put death on a pretender when if there were even the barest of options outside of death you'd never take it. Heck a nature summons with even a 50% chance of an astral pick would cover a lot of the reasons that many nations need to pick up death in some way.

Take a nation like tir na nog. About as close as you come to a 'good' nation in dominions and thematically they definitely shouldn't be summoning up dead mages from beyond the grave and awakening dead gods. However, unless you want to be shooting gallery for mind hunts you'd better find some way to get astral mages. If you're lucky you'll find some lizard men or crystal amazons. But if you get an unlucky indi roll, you find yourself having to (rather un-thematically) crawl up death for a few specters for AMA and mind hunt cover.

I'm not saying that the other paths need tartarians or even specters. But it would be nice if they got a couple summons that would give them a couple random picks here or there that didn't require a pretender with D-magic.