MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Something was bugging me about the Chinese TYPE 98 ref., I forgot about the Polish ZSU-34-4MP w/GROM MANPAD shown in pic before the bottom one and Russia's ZSU-34-4 w/SA-18 "GROUSE" MANPAD shown in bottom pic of ref. Note the difference in mounting, launcher and radar between the two. More work maybe will have to check those OOB's. Hate when something gets into my head at times. Hate that ingrained questioning attitude we got repeatedly taught maybe, that's why I'm sitting at my desk and not at the bottom of the "deep dark sea"!?!
http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapo...e_missile.html

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

At least you get to live in relative comfort at the bottom of the sea.
Trade ya for a mud filled foxhole.

[MarkSheppard]

Some more Armata stuff. This is a long beast. Plus a concept drawing of what the interior could look like.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

At least you get to live in relative comfort at the bottom of the sea.
Trade ya for a mud filled foxhole.

Not a fair deal, Suhiir. Reading this post after being drawn here by MarkSheppard's post (I try to read his stuff), it brought to mind my boyhood fascination with subs. I remember in the 8th grade two boys immigrated to the US from Germany. I questioned them incessantly after Wofgang told me their dad served on a U-boat. Most recently, I read Rick Campbell's The Trident Deception, fascinating submarine story interwoven into a complex geopolitical/military thriller. You don't live in relative comfort at the bottom of the sea, any sea, even the Red Sea. Although official crush depths are secret, given published test depths, the crush depth or collapse depth is no where near the bottom of any sea on earth. Maybe, the sub would lay on the edge of undersea mountainous cliff but certainly not at the bottom with a live crew.

In the book, The Trident Deception, an axiom of sub warfare was stated in general terms as; "one crew lives, the other crew dies." A torpedo hit sends her to the bottom, she and her crew dies.

So, keep your foxhole along with all your "dope and beer."

-----

[Suhiir]

I once had a job that required me to board subs (after all someone has to deliver the list of which sailors/civilian techs are allowed aboard) so while I've never been at sea (or under it) I have seen/been about everywhere in one (minus a couple special areas) chasing down the commanding officer to hand deliver my list.
I'll take the sub ANY day. Sure they have their drawbacks but so does steel rain.

[shahadi]

A boat at mooring is kinda like the USN Reserve Sub fleet... there was one at Alameda in the 60's, I think she was decommissioned in '70, the Parche, maybe, I seem to recall her name. Anyway, even those boats, during "weekend cruise" had nothing but drills and drills and drills. There's a drill for every scenario, apart from torpedo, missile, and battle drills, there's emergency, electrical, nuc, ventilation, and all sorts of drills. A lot of work to practice to kill the other guy before he kills you, or to slip silently, quietly, through the dark blue seas. Imagine the drills at sea.

Take the "dope and beer" and be happy.

-----

[Suhiir]

I have more time at sea then most sailors I know (tho not aboard a sub), believe me I know shipboard drills. Plus the ones we Jarheads did and the sailors got out of the way or got run over.

[DRG]

This thread has drifted off topic so lets put the life in a trench vs life in a sub issue to bed now.....OK ?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Haven't looked in for awhile, I see a diversion is needed. I can say the following 800ft, +20 knots, many hundreds of pounds+++ per square inch, "Crazy Ivan" was for real, slept with our food (7 month deployment), been places I can never talk about and been places I can, hoped to never die like the guys did on the THRESHER, SCORPION, BONEFISH (Had a friend/crewman who was on the BONEFISH during her last voyage.) and the KURSK (We could've saved them but they wouldn't let us-"national pride" led to suffocation-that one hurt if you could've seen what we could.), been shot at on the range with the new MK-48 ADCAP - not fun either as it's "whizzing" around you and finally missed the hell out of CINCLANTHOME and the kids with 12 years under the sea.
But you want to know what was the scariest thing of all!?! Yep, the Germans and French are going to try again to jointly develop an MBT together to replace the LEOPARD 2 and LECLERC tanks. The last attempt was unsuccessful leading to the separate development of the LEOPARD and for France the interim AMX-30/AMX-30B2 BRENNUS and eventually LECLERC.

And no, we will not see this tank in this game...
http://www.janes.com/article/51850/g...-2-replacement

And finally here's a surprise!!!!...
http://www.janes.com/article/51269/a...pares-shortage

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]