Babylon 5 Mod

[TNZ]

So all this mod needs is new AI research files, AI design creation files and a more AI friendly facility file. It might be a good idea to concentrate initially on the races that have the most in common. I don’t think that the ships of any race need to be bigger then any other, just make the components better this way the math stays the same. I also think it would be better to make the components the way you want them to be. Its much easier to delete a component that doesn’t work then add new ones. The Last patch has made making good AI design creation files a lot easier. I have not played this mod so I don’t know how good or bad the AI files are. Would it be possible for someone to upload a txt only Version of this mod.

[pathfinder]

A thought or two from me based on my feeble attempts Last year:

The weapons are not optimal (as ya'll already know). Either the ship sizes are not the best or weapon mounts or sizes are not synched optimally. Then there is the question of damage and range on some of the weapons. I think the systematic approach Timstone and Grumbler will, in the end, make a much better MOD. I also agree with Timstone (hopefully B5 fanboys won't blow a gasket) in that the MOD should NOT be 100% "canon". DO keep as much of the "canon" stuff as you can.

Speaking of AIC MOD...take a look at how JLS has set the AI up in there. MIGHT be worth using his setup.

Edit: typos...argh

[ March 13, 2004, 21:36: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Hah, Da Path has returned! Good to see you again.

Okay, Grumbler and I have combined forces. We yet have to divide the workload. I think I'll be doing much of the weapons stuff and he'll dive headfirst into the AI stuff. We also have to make a workingscheme of some sort. Because we also ha a real life, we have to earn a living, so we can't be modding all the time.
Untill we have decided on a firm basis and are confident we can give work to other, we will ask it in this wonderful thread.
I didn't mean disrespect to anyone when I said we must be confident to give work to others. It's just a little risk of having too many people working on a mod. That way the whole balance can come in danger. Just sit tight and wait for those exciting Messages from Grumbler or me.

It's good to read so much support and interest for this mod. Keep it up!

Edit: Typo's!! I'm sure there are more...

[ March 13, 2004, 17:36: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[pathfinder]

TNZ: These are the txt data files. Are these what you wanted? or each individual race AI files?

1055128545.zip

There is NOT a place to upload them here anymore

The AI research files (IMHO) aren't too bad but the AI designcreation files most definitely could use tweaking. More important are the "make-up" of the facilties and the components. So that the AI can make "intelligent" setups of its various ships/fighters, etc.

Examples: Why do the Shadows AI always place two living cpu's onboard ALL ships when there is a restriction to having only 1? Why does the AI around mid-game start shoving cargo pods into spaces instead of armor? or weapons?

Why does the AI substitute trading Posts for manufacturing faciltities?

[ March 13, 2004, 22:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[solops]

In my continuing quest for Bab5 for SEIV Gold :Where in this or any other thread can I pick up the Bab5 AI files (Gold compatible)?

[ March 13, 2004, 23:49: Message edited by: solops ]

[pathfinder]

Solops: Look in this thread:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...0;t=000001;p=3


scattered I know but I do not have the time to search and post the specific spots.

[grumbler]

Here is my proposal for the AI_Design_Creation standard. Note that the goal here is to get effective ships designs in a file that is easy to playtest. After we are sure the “stock” AI_D_C is working, specialized AI_D_Cs can be prepared or the races by simply modifying the stock A_D_C. The specialized AI_D_Cs will be needed for such things as stealth components.

In this post I will just talk about warships. Other ship types can be dealt with similarly if everyone likes this approach.

Warships are considered to belong to one of four different size categories, each with three subdivisions which determine the types of components installed. The four major categories are:
1. Escorts: Escort (150kt), Corvette (200kt), ****
2. Destroyers: Frigate *(300kt), Destroyer*(350kt) Heavy Destroyer*(400kt)
3. Cruisers: Light Cruiser*(500kt), Cruiser* (600kt), Heavy Cruiser* (700kt)
4. Capital Ships: Battlecruiser* (800kt), Battleship**(900kt), Heavy Battleship*(1000kt)
5. Massive Ships: ****, Dreadnought*(1200kt), Heavy Dreadnought (1400kt)
* renamed ship
** renamed ship, new size
**** no ship in this Category (as there would be no rational reason to design such)

Within each Category, the subdivisions are equipped as follows:
1. Lightest ship: main (and secondary) weapons only
2. “Standard ship” main (and secondary) weapons plus PDF
3. “Heavy Ship” main (and secondary) weapons, PDF, and more armor.

Each Category of ship (cruisers and above) will have its own weapons mount. Larger ships will have more effective weapons with a given tonnage allocated. Smaller ships will retain the current defensive bonuses. Each Category (cruisers and above) will require an additional crew space and life support. Each succeeding Category will have a larger reactor size and each reactor size will be enough to power 120% of the ships engines required for the Category’s largest ship (much as it is now, but with the reactors “rationalized” a bit). Larger ships will also have additional components like scanners and such.

Speeds:
Warships will have the same “standard speed” regardless of size. While it might seem kinda cool to have battleships, for instance, be slower than destroyers, the computer doesn’t pay much attention to speeds when it creates fleets, and different speeds for different sizes will result in AI fleets being slower than they need be. Also, ships with different speeds tend to result in worse fleet performance in strategic combat.

Effective ship speeds by engine tech (ignoring such things as Ship enhancement):
1. Fission drive: 4
2. Fusion drive: 6
3. Anti-matter drives: 9
4. Gravimetric: 12

My idea is that these speeds should be achievable using 40% of the hull size for any given ship. Scouts will "cheat" a bit by having no requirements for LS or CC due to small crew size for the hull.

Now, how is the “generic AI_D_C” gonna work? It is really pretty straightforward. Each ship will have 5 main weapons family choices (ships larger than destroyers having secondary weapons as well), and, where appropriate, 5 PD weapons family choices. These will be numbered as follows:

21001-21005 PD weapons
22001-22005 First through fifth main weapons for escorts Category
23001-23005 First through fifth main weapons for destroyers Category
24001-24005 First through fifth main weapons for cruisers Category
25001-25005 First through fifth main weapons for capital ships Category
26001-26005 First through fifth main weapons for Massive ships Category

Now, the key is that for, say, the Minbari, weapon 25001 might be a Neutron Laser, while for the EA it might be a Trans-Phased Plasma Cannon and the Shadows would have the Heavy Molecular Slicer Beam. So long as no race has more than one choice for 25001 (or whatever), this seems to work out in testing. Secondary weapons for the larger ships would logically just be the primary weapons from the destroyers Category, though we can add more families if this doesn’t make sense.

It is entirely possible that 24001 and 25001 (or 25001 and 26001) will end up being the same weapon in different mounts, in which case we might not need all the families listed above. Not having the B5 wars books, I am unsure as to how much differentiation they have between the types of ships.

I would expect the xx004 and xx005 to be the general weapons. Thus early designs will all tend to look the same (unless we want to do away with general weapons entirely?)

Any thought on this approach? It is more “generic” than we will probably want to end up with, but at least it will get us started and will allow us to chase down the AI gremlins a bit faster.

[pathfinder]

Grumbler: Looks like a good plan...I especially like the idea of one main weapon type. This will simply things a lot and keep the AI from choking on having too many weapon choices. One comment: Keep generic or general weapons as not all the races have race-specific weapons. Unless this MOD is to only have the "primary" series races.

[ March 14, 2004, 22:45: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[TNZ]

I like your ideas for standardizing the making of the AI design creation files. I would, however, suggest that the ship sizes be a 100kt bigger so that the smaller ships are easier to design for the AI. It should be possible to get a ship’s engines to take up 40% of its hull size by using mounts for the engines. e.g. a escort ship(250kt)would have four engines with a tonnage space taken of 25kt each, a heavy dreadnought ship(1500kt)would have four engines with a tonnage space taken of 150kt each. It is also possible to increase the cost of the engines and their supply usage.

[TNZ]

I think what Grumbler, is saying is that each race will have up to five main weapons and five secondary weapons just, the way the AI likes it. Because all races use racial area technology for their weapon technologies, you can use the same weapon family numbers in your AI design creation files.

Might it not be a good idea to use weapon mounts to achieve the Category changes of the weapons?

22001-22005 First through fifth main weapons for escorts Category
23001-23005 First through fifth main weapons for destroyers Category
24001-24005 First through fifth main weapons for cruisers Category
25001-25005 First through fifth main weapons for capital ships Category
26001-26005 First through fifth main weapons for Massive ships Category