SE5, Tell Aaron what's on your Wish List

[Lisif Deoral]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Do not confuse real time with RTS games like Warcraft and such. Those games are a cruel abomination of strategy, and are not all that real time is.

Strategy? What strategy? Apart from having to decide what units you need, everything else sums up to "get as much money and as much units as you can" more often than not...

[ May 25, 2003, 18:33: Message edited by: Lisif Deoral ]

[Fyron]

Which is why I said they are a cruel abomination of strategy...

[JR]

How about:
1. Fighters that can be sent on missions away from their bases/carriers instead of being confined as they are? It would be nice to be able to send a swarm of fighters into a system ahead of the main fleet to soften things up before an invasion.

2. A larger playing field with more than 255 stars - say 500?

3. Neutral, non-spacefaring races, in various stages of development, that can be added to one's empire by either diplomatic persuasion or conquest?

4. Military bases on planets that troops can be stationed in without having to treat them like cargo with the appropriate room for cargo? Any invasion would have to conquer these bases before anything else? The bases should also have upgradable defenses.

5. Research modules for space stations/starbases, that would add to total research, and would/could contribute to a specific type of research if located in say, the same system as a black hole? This one could contribute research points to energy production/gravity research.

6. Power plants for space stations etc? Everything needs a power plant. Even one that could be knocked out prior to a takeover of the station.

7. The addition of cities to planets that would house the population. The more settlements/towns/cities there are, the more population on a planet.

8. One planetary government center per planet. Without which, a planetary governor cannot be appointed. This would also affect planetary population morale and stability.

9. A way to retreat from the combat screen instead of survivors being confined to the corner until oblivion occurs?

I have oodles of other suggestions but they'll be held back for another time.

[Phoenix-D]

"Fighters that can be sent on missions away from their bases/carriers instead of being confined as they are? It would be nice to be able to send a swarm of fighters into a system ahead of the main fleet to soften things up before an invasion."

Apparently someone hasn't discovered the "launch fighters" button in SE4..

Either that or you want fighters to be able to warp.

[Taera]

this had been mentioned before but still, id realy like SE to have a if/then ability to program orders/strategies/ai. this would open endless possibilities and finally give us the long-sought-after campaign possibilities.

to balance things there should be an option "normal strategies/advanced options" and the latter would have to be okayed by all players to be used at all.

[Ares]

This is my first post to this forum. YAAAY! I hope I don't screw it up. Anyway, I read through all 25 pages (3 hrs. of my life I'll never get back...) and here's my thoughts. Some are original ideas, some are expanded off of other ideas I read, and others are just some I saw and wanted to cast my "Yeah, me too!" vote on, but I completely lost track of which is which is which... And so, here they are, in ABSOLUTELY no particular order:

A peace treaty to cancel war and set current treaty to 'none'. And for that matter, treaty "packages" like trade packages to trade specific resources, perks, etc

A notes tab for empires and systems so I can record latest intelligence on a system or current treaty stipulations of an empire

Open-endded research!

Allow mods to add/change planet types and atmosphere. I also like the moddable resources idea, as well as the idea to make all ships/stations/planets/etc. generic "objects" that can be modded themselves.

More systems. Perhaps make a self-expanding galaxy. As all of the empires expand through certain thresholds, a certain number of systems are "discovered"

This whole block covers sensors/scanners/cloaks. I fully support sensors have ranges. If scanners do, why shouldn't sensors? Scanners and Scanner Jammers should have levels like cloaks/sensors. If my scanner beats your jammer, I can still scan you. Also, some things should modify cloak levels. If I have a level 4 cloak, but I'm using huge energy-hogs for engines, maybe that adds a -1 modifier to my cloak. If I have a cloaking device AND stealth armor, maybe I should get a +1 bonus to my cloaking device level.

Someone mentioned neutral empires that you can incorporate into yours through force, persuasion, or by them wanting to. I second this motion. Then you can really create a "United Federation of Planets" with many races, each with their own attributes, which ARE saved (second-ing that motion too).

I'd like to be able to mod the turn times. I know the number of comabat turns (both space and planet) are like this, but what if I want each game-turn to represent a day rather than a month? I could set the time elapsed per turn to .2 (five days/week) and between the game turns (in the replay) to 24 (hours), with combat in simultaneous games very 6 hours, or something similar.

I like the towing idea too. Perhaps tractor beams can double as tow-hooks. The vessels movement is reduced based on the size of the vessel been towed, to the point where the vessel can't move at all.
more stars self-expanding galaxy?
xpace facilities/stations/ships

I preferred SE3's setup that let you assign your initial tech levels rather that IV's "everyone gets the same tech at the start, no matter what." You could customize you race's tech specialties before the game ever started. I also preferred their research and agree with whoever suggested SEV's be like it. Intelligence could be done the same way. I'd have to select the specifics for each project, then assign percentages. And while I'm on the subject of intelligence (my favorite part) I think you should be able to select a possible empire to frame for ANY project, just in case you happen to have it happen, rather than it being random.

I'd like to be able to send more than one message to an empire per turn. I can send him a treaty offer, make the text block an "official" treaty (with stipulations like neutral and demilitarized zones, length of treaty, etc.) Then send a number of general Messages with information that crops up throughout my turn.

Someone made the suggestion of people as a resource. I like this, and it can even be expanded on. Make crew required for ships, and have specialized crew. Captain can function as a bridge, XO - auxiliary control, weapons crew provides a bonus to attack (perhaps set the base attack at 80% or 90%, with weaopns crew compensating), engineering crew that can repair systems, etc. I realize that much of this can be modded in (which I'm working on). Then you can transfer an experienced crew to a new ship and scrap the old one, or train a crew at a military college before they ever set foot on a startship (perhaps not as high experience). This would also tie in with my intelligence idea. Perhaps intelligence is conducted by operatives posing as crew members. You sneak them aboard enemy ships, then they send out Messages (at the cost of a chance to be detected) intelligence regarding the location of space they are in. If you want to affect operations on a certain ship or planet, you order them (also putting them in risk of capture) to that location, which they must reach by hopping from ship to station to ship to planet, etc. Each operative is listed in the intelligence window, with a percentage of funding assigned to each to affect his performance.

I like the idea of building ships component-by-component. If the spaceyards automatically assembled after all the components were complete, would everybody be happy? This would also allow you to build extra components so you can also play the role of "arms dealer". Or you could store them as cargo so your ship has a backup in case a critical system has been destroyed. Perhaps it requires an engineering team to make the replacement.

Mines should be targeted at random ships, with a cap on the number per ship. That will allow mines with special damage typeds (only engines, for example) without wasting 100 mines on 1 ship.

ranged boarding, so I can use transporters to beam my troops directly to an enemy ship. Additionally, a type that skips shields so I can create "phased transporters" or something similar. Also, boarding attacks should be more complex, with both teams volleying back and forth. If one side is doing well, they don't receive as many casualties (resulting in fewer boarding partys/security stations being destroyed). If the boarding is doing well, perhaps they have a chance to secure the bridge and disable the self-destruct device before it has a chance to go off.

It should be possible to order ships through a warp point that hasn't opened yet, but will be soon, so I can order a ship to open a wormhole, zip though it, and close it in the same turn (Did I mention ships shouldn't lose remaining movement with stellar manipulations? At least make it component ability that can be modded)

create/destroy planets/stars not instantaneous, but instead creating an instability like the special events. Using create star/planet (or a new tech: stabilize star/planet) on an existing one that has been destablized can prevent this. Or perhaps create two creates and two destoys. Based on their tech, maybe it's instantaneous, maybe it's not.

Not sure about gold, but I don't think all destroyed-on-use components have that ability moddable, but are instead hardcoded. That should be revised.

As for any and all people who want better, faster, more controllable tactical combat (better AI excluded), as long as there is still strategic, I don't care, but I will never use tactical combat. Ever. I am the ruler of an empire, not a ship captain. I am nowhere near the battle, and, in "reality"(?), have no knowledge of the battle until after its happend (or at very least, not accurate, up-to-date knowledge) It's the ship captains and fleet commanders who control that aspect of the empire, not me.

race name should be different from empire name. What if I want to play humans, but I want my empire to be called "The Star League", not "The Human Star League"?

As for everyone wanting a hexagonal grid to better deal with the hypoteneuse problem, I really don't care one way or 'tother, but this idea used in pen & paper rpgs could be used. On a square map, diagonal movement costs an extra movement point for every other movement diagonal movement that turn (1 - 2 - 1 - 2, etc) This takes care of the Pythagorean dilemma.

I am a HUGE fan of ships travelling THROUGH space rather than skipping over it (hyper/warp drives vs/ warp points). While I certainly apreciate the random wormhhole every now and again, that should not be the only method of traversing the galaxy. Maybe have several different types of propulsion. Hyper/warp drive that travels at FTL speeds to other systems. These can be "piled on" to allow faster speeds even at lower tech levels. Another is jump drives. These are extremely costly in terms of supplies/light-years travelled (less so at higher levels), but provide 1-turn travel to any system if the ship pays the cost. The standard opening and closing warp points ("jump gates") can be a third option. Only one of these methods would be available to an empire at the start of the game, though it (possibly) can be traded among them. I'd like to be able to set up a perimeter around my empire. Place long range sensor buoys around it that can detect (though probably not identify) approaching ships.

I'm also a big fan of a game none of you probably ever heard call Xpace made by a company called Xoftware that never Lasted long enough to complete the game, though I personally thought it showed huge promise (I think it was one of those three-guys-working-out-of-their-garage type company, though I'm not sure about it.) The propulsion system in that game was virtually identical to the one I just described. Another key element was that the emperor (YOU!) physically existed. You were located on a planet (or starship, or whatever.) While this played several minor roles (the morale of the location of the emperor increases, for example), it really played one key role: Communication. In this game, the further away you were from a ship, the longer it would take to receive information from that shiip. Communication was a technology that could be researched like any other. The higher the technology, the larger the radius ships can communicate to in a single turn. Communications relays could be used to extend that range. If enough relays were in place, I could receive a message from halfway across the galaxy in a single turn. Otherwise, it could take quite some time. Of course, if there was something you wanted to focus your attention on, you could reduce your communication lag by hopping a ship there. In that game, you needed a lot of cargo space to accomodate the emporer and his equipment/staff. In this game, you could even make it a seperate component that houses him (...wondering what that "palace" in abilities.txt is for...)

Well, anyway, that's all for my. Now that everyone is thoroughly bored, I'll let you get back to your lives. I'm sure you have a lot to add...

[ May 27, 2003, 04:35: Message edited by: Ares ]

[klausD]

You could not be any more wrong than that statement... Real time execution of combat can very easily be more strategically deep than se4's combat system (such as in SJ's post). Do not confuse real time with RTS games like Warcraft and such. Those games are a cruel abomination of strategy, and are not all that real time is.

I dont confuse your idea of realtime with "games" like C&C. I am sure that you have a more "advanced" Version in mind. But as always I would like to raise my voice (with a few others) against Aarons plans to make tactical combat realtime like his new game Starfury. I want to show him that not everyone goes d´accord with his plan.

I would rather wish that he invests his energy in making the AI better or improve the colony/economical management options in the game than riding on the current realtime wave.

tschüß
KlausD

[Krsqk]

I would rather wish that he invests his energy in making the AI better or improve the colony/economical management options in the game than riding on the current realtime wave.

Of course, if we get both, maybe we'll all be happy..........Nah.

[Fyron]

Real time or pseudo real time is really the only good way to have combat. No pure turn-based system can possibly be made that has realistic/good combat. Turn-based combat just has so many silly factors in it that it is, well, silly. Weapons need to be able to fire at the same time. You should never be able to fire every weapon you have in a "round". That makes no sense. Why should you be able to fire all your weapons before the enemy can react? Combat needs to have many, many small, incremental "phases" in order to get any degree of realism. Why not go that extra step and greatly simplify the rules by making it real time? You get the same effects, but without all the baggage of complex phase systems. Why should combat be broken up into disjoint "rounds" anyways? That is very unrealistic, and adds many other levels of silliness to the whole thing. Why can my ships only take action every (insert time frame here, such as minute)? They should be able to act at all times. A combat system where you give orders, and then watch them executed for a given time unit (such as in BOTF) (pseudo-real time combat, btw), is also silly. Is there some magical barrier preventing orders from being recieved at all but very specific time intervals? Silly, if you ask me.

And please, don't try any tired old arguments about pacing and click-festing. The simple solution of issuing orders while paused eliminates all such concerns very nicely. In fact, this allows you to make combat just like a BOTF-esque system, just with customizeable "turn" lengths. Win-win situation, really. A rather elegant solution for hotseat games would be to have the players agree on a time interval during which the game can be paused, with so much time that the game has to be unpaused. If both players hit the unpause button before the pause timer runs out, the game unpauses. You don't ever play hotseat (only MP game with tactical combat) with random strangers, do you? Probably not. Against just the AI, you can easily take as much time as you want, just like with Se4 tactical combat. And in other MP games, all combat is strategic, so having real time combat has no possible negative effects in such a situation. And don't say the AI making poor decisions is a negative effect of real time combat. Just go watch a strategic battle replay in se4.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Ares:
It should be possible to order ships through a warp point that hasn't opened yet, but will be soon, so I can order a ship to open a wormhole, zip though it, and close it in the same turn (Did I mention ships shouldn't lose remaining movement with stellar manipulations? At least make it component ability that can be modded)

That can already be done in simultaneous. It's just a matter of timing.