Mod: Dominions 3000 v0.81 - lots of new indies, new map (using the brand new map commands)

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

The sorcs could remain the same, ancient traditions haven't changed. The assassins could remain nearly the same too. troopers would have to change though.. naked black pplz won't fit anymore (except the sorcs who as I said will keep their traditional outfits. Need to think of something

This is how "naked pplz" fit in: Minotaurs vs Hoplites, 3000 version.
That is based on the Samurai Jack episode "Jack and the Spartans". For some reason, of the dozens of people who combined visuals of that episode with the trailer of the movie "300", only ONE included the awesome "chainsaw-shields" scene: 0:35-0:36 in this one. Nothing else to see in that vid, though.

Any way, hoplites are hoplites , so here's the weaponry for Machakan Space-Hoplites, based on the above:
SPEAR Rocket-launcher:
limited ammo, good range, low-ish precision, high damage + AP, causes 2 points of armor-negating stun damage (fire resistance negates stun) in AoE 2.
SPEAR Shockblade:
Basic spear upgraded to Dom3000 levels. Probably nothing fancy, although it could deal a point or two of lightning or fire damage if that fits.
Hoplite Shield (weapon):
bonus weapon with high damage, -3 att, len 1.

Shockblade:
Used instead of Bane Blades (so limited to few commanders). Armor-piercing, deals fire or lightning secondary damage.

Some troops (Spider Rider equivalents) have SPEAR Web-launchers instead of normal rockets.

[rdonj]

Oops, I wasn't thinking at the time, sorry.

[rdonj]

Umm... I just started a new game with the dragons under the new version and ended up in province 1 with no starting army. I'm not quite sure why, I checked the .dm and the lines for starting units are there. I think maybe it's the province. Btw, you never did fix the venemous dragon's ranged attack.

[rdonj]

Monster number 1394, a space kraken is named "predator alien". It's possible it's both ways, I didn't see. Also I have some monter number 0 PD in a forest with dragons.

Well, it's possible to expand with the dragons, but it is REALLY hard to accomplish a lot. I had to use ghost dragons to assassinate most things, and steel dragons to take krakens. Haven't met many space eels but I was able to kill one by sending 3 stargazers set to cast personal luck and attack. Though blessing first would be a good idea to get a little extra morale. I think as things are now the dragons are definitely the weakest race, they can make annoying for other people by assassinating commanders, but they're stuck at their weak level for far too long. I don't think that a rainbow pretender with paths within booster range will work, at least for this map, as you basically need to hit construction 6 to summon anything. Couple that with the amount of research and gems you need to summon anything, you're looking at several years of research before you can summon anything.

I think the dragons need to ramp up faster, and possibly reduce the cost of the summons. Possible changes to make them more competetive in dom3k:
1. Give at least some of the dragons a research boost of a couple points.
2: Make stargazers recruit-everywhere.
3: Make another type of dragon that's good at research and not horribly expensive, but otherwise relatively useless.
4: Give the dragons some level of air magic on recruitables, even just 1 air on stargazers would be enough.
4: Reduce the cost of the level 5 conjurations by about 10 or so gems. They might end up being slightly cheap for that level, but you still want 10-35 extra gems worth of equipment to use them, and since you can't get forge bonuses for the nation they'd still be a lot more expensive than something like a bane lord. Plus the dragons need thugs more than other races anyway.

[Aezeal]

OK I know what to do.. more AP attacks for the lot of them just like all races here dammit (just for dom 3K though)
Why air 1?
stargazers recruit everywhere: why not and I'll give them one more research bonus. (unless I decide to give them air one since then they will have more magic already)
What was I supposed to fix again in the venemous dragon.

I thought the summons where already pretty low on the research scale for their power. I could maybe lower the weakest ones a bit more so you have early acces.

Also.. they have 3 multi heroes which are the low level summons (but have very good combat magic paths) so think about luck 3... also helpfull for your gems. If you go relatively high on commanders you could go O 3 for commanders, some troops and lots of castles and then save points on the production scale. A pretender with like 3 magic paths to create boosters, some luck and order and low dominion can help with research too.

I'll do this.. before we start the MP game else Loren will have no fun at all.

[rdonj]

Air one so it's easier to get thundercloud dragons partly, but also because that way they could forge amulets of missile protection, since they have very poor missile protection for dom3k that would help them a lot. Or maybe give them 1 air income, so they can get air started more easily with their pretender.

You were going to do something to make the venemous dragons do higher damage... atm they have a 4 ap ranged attack, that makes them slightly better at range than ulmish planetary guards.

The summons are a bit low on research requirements for the power, yes. It's only the conjuration 5 ones that I am suggesting any sort of change to, they probably come early enough, it's just a matter of getting to the summons, having the gems and being able to cast the spell. I think probably your best bet is a sleeping 4F3A4E5S statue of the dragon god, with that you can cast your first level of summons without needing to get a huge amount of construction first and most summons you can't cast are in close reach. But they really need a huge amount of gems to get those dragons, and it's a bit hard to scrape them together in such a crowded map, with slow expansion. Obviously we need a Baalz guide to dom3k dragons :P

It's hard squeezing in all the magic that the dragons need plus scales too. But yeah, both luck and order are very important. With my suggested pretender chassis above, you can get 3 order, 3 luck, and dom 6 with 1 heat and 1 sloth. Taking another sloth or 1 death gets you magic 1, which is almost necessary with the low rp to cost of dragons. Sloth is dangerous though, with 2 sloth I had a second fort in the game I was playing earlier and all surrounding provinces and couldn't build a single commander from it.

Yeah, hopefully this will be enough to make them competetive enough to get somewhere in the mp game. I certainly wouldn't want to try how they are now, it would be painful

[Aezeal]

ok then I'll add 1 air to the stargazer, I think the dragons are getting a lot there though, sacred, good stats for a mage (very very good), reseach bonus, no old age.. they'll be massed. I 'm doubting wether they should be all castle then... one of these/turn is a pretty solid research base.

And the AP weapons and higher damage on the venom...

[Aezeal]

PS I'm thinking for empowering air 1 or 0 makes no difference.. with his magicboost he'll have 2 after empowerment. (and when I go air 1 I'd have to remove that or he'd have 2 automatically.)

I could give him a2 (incl boost).. would make him pretty powerfull more magic than most recruitables, certainly cap only and costing more.. I do think getting some air somewhere would be thematic. and it's either this or a new dragon but that would make it so.. predictable..

let me hear what you think

venom got 8 dmg now.

all recruits now have AP claws, which left the bonebiters a bit equal to all others (especially steels) so I gave him a single AP claw attack but made his whiptail -2 att. (it's non AP so it's not that much of a bonus in dom 3K but might give him advantage over steels (with his higher str and hp etc) for some situations.

anotherthing: do all onebattlespell work properly now?

[rdonj]

Giving the stargazer air2 wouldn't be bad, and yeah, I'd agree on keeping them cap only. That would help them significantly and put thundercloud dragons much more realistically in reach. I never really liked the idea of a new dragon either, so I'm glad to see a different method used.

I'm not sure if all onebattlespells are working properly, I'm pretty sure the stargazers do luck but I haven't looked through the dm for anything else.

[Aezeal]

yeah new dragons would be summons only I'd say..

I think 2 more lvl 5's and/or lvl 6 wouldn't hurt those lvl 5's could be pretty much elemental or paraelemental (as in Dnd) lvl 6 and higher must be something special though
I've made the lvl 5's 25 pearls though but I'm wondering if you have 55 gems would you get 2 lvl 5's or one lvl 8-9 summon (even assuming you'd have access to both) 25 is pretty cheap. well the lvl 9's are much stronger so maybe I'd get them anyway.

I'm contemplating a summons of the dragon god (or his avatar or something) but it's pretty hard making stronger dragons than the ones I already have

if I make a 999 pearl summons would it be fair if it was a pretty unbeatable (multiple forms each nearly the same so he wouldn't LOOK like a shapeshifter but so soulslay wouldn't work even if they go through the MR (which would be very high) avatar of the dragon god (more so than the avatars that can be pretenders) casting requirements something like 7 astral and 7 something else (death maybe since it's relatively easy to get and this is somewhat of a ressurection

most high class summons have powerfull onebattle spells