MP: ComfortZone - All MA Nations - Running

[Calahan]

@ All

Apologies everyone, but I think I'm going to have to look for a permanent sub to take over Atlantis. The turn time for the nation is creeping up every turn, and this is without me doing anything other than doing routine stuff and grabbing whatever R'yleh/Indy provinces are up for grabs. There is a lot of good things going on for Atlantis, but I just don't have the time personally to do this nation's position the justice it deserves.

I asked Jim Morrison a month ago if he wanted to resume control of his nation, but I didn't get any sort of committed reply, and that was two weeks ago now, so not holding out much hope for his return now. But I'm pretty confident I can find a sub given the position.

I'll certainly keep playing until I have found a sub though, since I wasn't willing to let Atlantis fall into the AI's hands 20 turns ago, and even less willing for that to happen now after the time I've put into them.

[duncanshriek]

@alhorro and @Valerius

You two are the last dedicated players in this game. So would please one of you volunteer to take over the admin role?

If no one speaks up, I'll give the password to both of you...

[Valerius]

Well, I don't think I can call myself a dedicated player. I only take enough time on my turns to fight off your attacks to the best of my ability.

I think it makes sense to send the password to both of us. But really I think we should call it a game. Anyway, I can't imagine we'd find anyone crazy enough to want to sub into this.

I also want to thank you for stepping in to keep the game going. At the time you subbed it was already a lot of work to run Jotunheim; now I can only imagine how bad it is. You played very well.

[Calahan]

I would also think it best to call the game at this stage. Either as undecided or a draw. The most important question that has to be asked is "Why is it worth continuing this game?" and I guess the only person that question is relavent to now is alhorro. As the other players are basically by-standers, with little chance of achieveing anything out of this game before the end.

There's also the problem of finding a sub for Jotunheim. I'd be more than amazed if a Vet took on the position, since the absolute definition of MM hell is currently occuring in both Jotunheim and Mictlan. A massive income economy is not an attractive thing as an advert to a Vet looking to sub. Since they well know that the game would immediately eat many hours per day of their time. So the only sub you will get is a new-ish player either looking for experience, or someone who just wants to try out late game strategies. For the past week, I've been looking without success for just such a sub for the Atlantis position.

You also have to consider that if this game continues along its current lines, then it will easily take another 50+ turns before any winner might appear. And that is if Atlantis does nothing, as just by joining the war I reckon they could add another 30+ turns on top of that again.

It's always nice to win a game of dominions, but at some point you really do have to consider what the worth is. Is it worth spending another 200+ hours on this game just to get an actual winner? And the Ulm situation was never sorted, so the game already has a few issues with credibility. As I've never seen a nation in a game be allowed to go on for so long as just left 'in status'.

[alhorro]

Hm, and I've just regained the interest after about 40 turns of Nexus-related boredom. It's a paradox why people banish themselves to MM-Hell if they are eventually getting bored with it — I'm still avoiding MM with this game, and it's not all that bad I must admit. And I definitely think we shouldn't declare a draw, as it makes all the time we put in the game pointless. It's a great opportunity to test different endgame strategies after all.

[duncanshriek]

Originally Posted by Calahan

And the Ulm situation was never sorted, so the game already has a few issues with credibility. As I've never seen a nation in a game be allowed to go on for so long as just left 'in status'.

Well. The only conceivable effect of resolving Ulms situation would have been: a longer front line between Jotunheim and Mictlan and thus even more MM.
I wanted to avoid that effect.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by duncanshriek

Well. The only conceivable effect of resolving Ulms situation would have been: a longer front line between Jotunheim and Mictlan and thus even more MM.
I wanted to avoid that effect.

Yes, and that is my point really.

As the Ulm situation is something that has been artificially created, and is not something that should be part of any proper MP game (I've certainly never seen such a thing before). Ulm were, and still are, being used as a false barrier to make things easier for Jotunheim. An active Ulm could be, or could have been attacking Jotunheim, or upon Jotunheim's conquest of Ulm, have resulted in a second front being created for Mictlan to attack them. Which could be to Mictlan's great benefit, as then they could use resources they have in the C'tis area against Jotunheim a lot easier than they are currently able to.

Whereas a dead Ulm like we have now is just a very big benefit to Jotunheim, as it enables them to only be fighting on one front, and this is entirely down to the un-resolved issue regarding Ulm. Which I think is both unfair and unrealistic.

[duncanshriek]

Originally Posted by alhorro

It's a paradox why people banish themselves to MM-Hell if they are eventually getting bored with it

Master Enslave is the show stopper here.

I got pretty much pratice in MM. Probably I would have carried on without Master Enslave.

Without Master Enslave Jotun could conquer one castle after the other by concentrating the biggest army in the game with the most battle mages on one castle. Concentrating on only one big army is still micro-manageable.

Master Enslave is ridiculously overpowered and that is so only in favor of the _defending_ army.
It prevents the superior nation from excerting its force.

Regarding the MM thread on the general board:
Not Arcane Nexus or any other spells are a problem for deciding a big game. Master Enslave needs to be banished IMHO.

Originally Posted by alhorro

— I'm still avoiding MM with this game, and it's not all that bad I must admit. And I definitely think we shouldn't declare a draw, as it makes all the time we put in the game pointless. It's a great opportunity to test different endgame strategies after all.

I didn't do every possible min/max thing in order to cut down my MM. Only for cutting down MM I kept the front line short. Of course strategycally it would have been better to eliminate Ulm and make a second front there with Mictlan.

[BesucherXia]

Hmmm...

I was controlling Ulm and once forged a big alliance with Van/TC/Atlantis/Arco to stop Jotun, even had chance to break the big empire. But soon I realized we were just helping Mictlan and that was unfair for Jotun, especially for a relative new player.
Besides I was struck in the MM of another game, So I abandoned the hope and left the wars behind, just wanted to see who between Mictlan/Jotun would win in the end.
For me keeping neutral is the fairest thing I could do, otherwise I should have come to help Ctis by attacking Mictlan, as Ctis was my best ally in this game. I have less time for play, but ending a turn once a while would not take too much either. And I am caurious about its end.

I must say the current big stalemate is just the prove to this games disappointment itself. As the MM is hitting, even the game itself has been very cruel for any players still want to keep their track in the end game. And the exciting yet terrible map is also to blame. There is almost none chance for players started in the middle of the world. As I was in my position, I had to rely my back on ally (ctis) to win Ashdod/TC. But I also knew I would never get a solid place in another continent and keep my nation border in good shape without replacing the whole Jotunhiem which is of course impossible at all.

In this end game I beileve Atlantis is the more determined force as he can help one side to win or let them keep on drawing. As for Ulm, I doubt whether if I changed my side the game would be over soon in a "fair" end. And as Ulm has been doing nothing except ending turn since long, they would almost achieve nothing considering the current situation, just introduce more MM to other players.

For me as the Mictlan and Jotun were arising simultaneously in two separat continents and the ocean had been united by one race, the game had already be dropped into the draw. And all other people can do is whether to side and help one race to win or another.

[Valerius]

I think it's clear that we aren't going to find a sub. It seems a shame not to have some kind of resolution to this game given the amount of effort put in, especially by alhorro and duncanshriek.

Would anyone object to me declaring alhorro the winner and posting this game in the victorious nations thread? I'm not saying this as his ally but based on the fact that he is the last man standing. If this had gone the distance both he and duncanshriek would have been worthy winners but I think this game has gone as far as it's going to.