Babylon 5 Mod

[Nomor]

What was the longest Space Shuttle Mission?
Columbia STS-80
Launched: November 19, 1996
Duration: 17 days, 15 hours, 53 minutes, 18 seconds.

Now that's the kind of life support I'd want before I stepped into a Starfury.

After the Earth Minbari War, with all the Earth Force support ships getting chopped up there's no way I'd settle for a space faring fighter that only had a days worth of air. Hell, I'd only be happy with a week minimum.

It just goes to show how much plot driven crap ended up on B5.

Starfurys went on patrol using jump-gates looking for Raiders. If you got lost or damaged how long would it take for a rescue to find you.

JMS didn't say what kind of suicide pill Earth Force pilots took with them either, but I image it must have been pretty good.

[Timstone]

Suicide pills, well cyanide does the trick. I know some examples from the past.

[jimbob]

Suggestions from SEIV B5 beta test:

Oh, I liked this mod a great deal. However, here are some of my suggestions to make the game better. Sorry this is so long, but it's got most of my ideas/input/observations.

1.The number of weapons and the research grid are too complex. I know that the creators of the mod likely thought that this was great, but from a practical stand point, especially considering that the tech tree has not been drawn out, it simply ends up costing the player a lot of time of scrolling through the tech files. Not exciting or fun. Those who do not wish to do this will lose of course, and so it brings an entirely new aspect to the game – scrolling through data files – which isn’t the point of the game at all!
Also, many of the weapons higher up the research scale are actually worse! Combat Lasers is a fine example (vs lasers).

2.The races are not balanced, especially when it comes to the ancients. It is important that the Ancients start out more advanced than the other races, but they are WAY to advanced (IMHO) and there is simply no way for the lesser races to affect them. I have several suggestions to make the minor races more important (some in non-military ways!):
2.a. Significantly reduce the capacity of the Ancients to produce minerals, radioactives and organics. Can you see a Vorlon out picking weeds? Maybe working the mines? Of course not! That’s what the plebes … erm, lesser races are for. My first recommendation for the mod is that resource production be seriously reduced for the Ancients. This will do three things:
2.a.i. Though the Ancients are very strong, they will have to act politically to build up alliances. Now the lesser races will finally be important (besides selling their poplulations and colony ships to the Ancients, which pretty well sums up my involvement with them in the Last game.)
2.a.ii. The minor races will need to make public alliances, that is, they will also need to take sides in the wars. Of course some players may chose to just give gifts of resources also, and so fly under the radar…
2.a.iii. I know that some people will say “oh, but wouldn’t the Ancients use automated (robotic) mining operations?” To which I reply, did we see or hear of any in the series? Me, I’m thinking that both Ancient races were more than happy to let organics do the dirty work – who wants to be Lord over machines after all! As a concession, I’d suggest that the Ancients would be able to research full automation, but that this would be less efficient than just making some friends.

2.b. Significantly increase the ship costs of the Ancients. True, this will bring the build times up for them, but we’re not talking about building crappy little tugs like what the Minbari have (heeheehee). We’re talking great ships of the Ancients! The Shadow of course have to grow parts of their ships, and that can’t be quick. It will also bring up the maintenance costs, which will indebt the Ancients even more to the minor races.

2.c. Do not only disallow the construction of Colony ships by the Ancients, but also don’t give them any ground troops! This way they can’t land and take over other people’s planets either. We’d need to find a way to make the Ancient partisans stronger though. This way the Ancients can defend quite well, but will not be able to take over any planets unless they buy troops from lesser races, or work in concert with their allies (and that’s a bit more of what we want to see, right?).

3. The build times for buildings is about 40% too slow.
4. I played the pirates, and they really really really sucked. They could use some sort of advantages. I suggest that they should not be able to colonize either, but that their construction rate shouldn’t be as low as it was. Perhaps a lowered maintenance cost for their ships (see recyclers in P&N mods). I’d also suggest that they could have boarding party capacity for all their living quarters … after all, everybody on board a pirate ships is a pirate! And perhaps a couple of unique weapons that would stun/scramble the defending marines of ships they are going to take over (could just have some advancements that give a component with a better boarding skill and call it “shock grenade” etc.)

5. Finally, the “uber weapon” in this mod was the satellite. They always had better range than ship weapons that could take them out, and so satellites would always win. This needs some sort of balancing too.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Good luck on the next Version, I’d love to beta again!

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by jimbob:
I’d also suggest that they could have boarding party capacity for all their living quarters … after all, everybody on board a pirate ships is a pirate! And perhaps a couple of unique weapons that would stun/scramble the defending marines of ships they are going to take over (could just have some advancements that give a component with a better boarding skill and call it “shock grenade” etc.)

Actually, adding boarding abilities to the Crew Quarters would hurt the Pirates, since *all* components with boarding abilities are used during a boarding attempt, so the Crew Quarters would be destroyed as well. (Leaving the ship with a speed halved, until it has at least one Crew Quarter fully functional)

I wish the modders handling this project well to balance every option, or to make every one enjoyable and peculiar. There seems to be quite a lot of options available, so all I can say is a mere "good luck to you".

[ April 21, 2004, 18:50: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

[Ragnarok-X]

well i would GLADLY alter the component files, set up tech trees and balance the races and stuff, but since it looks like pathfinder, Timstonen and grumbler want to mod alone, there is no way for me. I guess i will alter the mod once it is released for my personal use, i cant stand unbalance...

[Timstone]

Hahaha... want to mod alone.
Hey, this great mod isn't just the mod of Grumbler, Pathfinder and myself. Nobody owns this mod.

Grumbler and I are busy making Version 2.0 of The Mod. Pathfinder is refining/tweaking the 1.X Version of The Mod.
Because Grumbler has so many great ideas, he and I started working together. More help is always nice and wanted. But sofar I've been a little egoistic and wanted to complete MY vision. I must confess that's not the way to go.

I'll let you guys in on a tiny secret. Don't tell anyone.
But when Grumbler disapeared (he later told me because of modem problems) I really couldn't do a thing. I don't have the ideas, I'm just a workerbea. But I happened to be the workerbea who started work on 2.0. That's all. So if someone who contributes a great deal to The Mod (like Grumbler) quits or gets lost or something, I get lost and don't know what to do.

If someone wants to contribute to The Mod, please do. But I give Grumbler the ultimate word in the decisions wether to implement it or not. Afterall, he's the one with the great ideas.
I hope Grumbler agrees.

Edit:
I wish I hadn't a GF, that way The Mod would already be finished... ehhh... no, bad wish. Very bad wish.
What?!! No, get away from me with that knife, you might hurt me! Aaaarrrgggg....

[ April 21, 2004, 20:16: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Fyron]

I’d also suggest that they could have boarding party capacity for all their living quarters

I suggest only security station abilities for CQ. When a ship Boards another, ALL boarding party components are destroyed, regardless of how many were actually needed... this would leave their ships completely stranded after boarding...

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by jimbob:
Suggestions from SEIV B5 beta test:

Oh, I liked this mod a great deal. However, here are some of my suggestions to make the game better. Sorry this is so long, but it's got most of my ideas/input/observations.

1.The number of weapons and the research grid are too complex. I know that the creators of the mod likely thought that this was great, but from a practical stand point, especially considering that the tech tree has not been drawn out, it simply ends up costing the player a lot of time of scrolling through the tech files. Not exciting or fun. Those who do not wish to do this will lose of course, and so it brings an entirely new aspect to the game – scrolling through data files – which isn’t the point of the game at all!
Also, many of the weapons higher up the research scale are actually worse! Combat Lasers is a fine example (vs lasers).

2.The races are not balanced, especially when it comes to the ancients. It is important that the Ancients start out more advanced than the other races, but they are WAY to advanced (IMHO) and there is simply no way for the lesser races to affect them. I have several suggestions to make the minor races more important (some in non-military ways!):
2.a. Significantly reduce the capacity of the Ancients to produce minerals, radioactives and organics. Can you see a Vorlon out picking weeds? Maybe working the mines? Of course not! That’s what the plebes … erm, lesser races are for. My first recommendation for the mod is that resource production be seriously reduced for the Ancients. This will do three things:
2.a.i. Though the Ancients are very strong, they will have to act politically to build up alliances. Now the lesser races will finally be important (besides selling their poplulations and colony ships to the Ancients, which pretty well sums up my involvement with them in the Last game.)
2.a.ii. The minor races will need to make public alliances, that is, they will also need to take sides in the wars. Of course some players may chose to just give gifts of resources also, and so fly under the radar…
2.a.iii. I know that some people will say “oh, but wouldn’t the Ancients use automated (robotic) mining operations?” To which I reply, did we see or hear of any in the series? Me, I’m thinking that both Ancient races were more than happy to let organics do the dirty work – who wants to be Lord over machines after all! As a concession, I’d suggest that the Ancients would be able to research full automation, but that this would be less efficient than just making some friends.

2.b. Significantly increase the ship costs of the Ancients. True, this will bring the build times up for them, but we’re not talking about building crappy little tugs like what the Minbari have (heeheehee). We’re talking great ships of the Ancients! The Shadow of course have to grow parts of their ships, and that can’t be quick. It will also bring up the maintenance costs, which will indebt the Ancients even more to the minor races.

2.c. Do not only disallow the construction of Colony ships by the Ancients, but also don’t give them any ground troops! This way they can’t land and take over other people’s planets either. We’d need to find a way to make the Ancient partisans stronger though. This way the Ancients can defend quite well, but will not be able to take over any planets unless they buy troops from lesser races, or work in concert with their allies (and that’s a bit more of what we want to see, right?).

3. The build times for buildings is about 40% too slow.
4. I played the pirates, and they really really really sucked. They could use some sort of advantages. I suggest that they should not be able to colonize either, but that their construction rate shouldn’t be as low as it was. Perhaps a lowered maintenance cost for their ships (see recyclers in P&N mods). I’d also suggest that they could have boarding party capacity for all their living quarters … after all, everybody on board a pirate ships is a pirate! And perhaps a couple of unique weapons that would stun/scramble the defending marines of ships they are going to take over (could just have some advancements that give a component with a better boarding skill and call it “shock grenade” etc.)

5. Finally, the “uber weapon” in this mod was the satellite. They always had better range than ship weapons that could take them out, and so satellites would always win. This needs some sort of balancing too.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Good luck on the next Version, I’d love to beta again!

#1: Look to the MOD by Timstone , grumbler, et al as they are simplifying the weapon tree. I do not have the ability nor the time to do so.

#2: Ancients.: I am only tweaking the original Version a bit and am almost through with that. I am NOT going to do a major re-write as I am simply not willing to spend the time nor do I have the programming insight to do so.

I have never seen the Ancients use troops (not saying they don't, just that I have not seen it in almost 2 years of testing), only the younger races . The Ancients do not have colonization. As for cutting their resource production, with only a home world's resource?! The Vorlons also had to grow their ships (or Last least partly) and I have not seen big fleets by either. Quite frankly they don't need to with their weapons totally outclassing the younger races.

[Nomor]

I would suggest that for troops for at least one of the Ancients namely the Shadows , one could use the Drakh as a basic type with a shadow type as an elite troop. They were sycophantic minions.

Game play wise I like the idea of mixing it with the main Bad guy.

Vorlons appear to me more behind the scene types not wanting to get their hands dirty. So no ground force.

How to represent this in the Mod though is beyond me, and may not be possible for the single player computer controlled AI.

One thing that bothered me was if the Drakh were such powerful telepaths, why did the Shadows not use them to "man" their Battle Crabs? What made Human telepaths better candidates? Perhaps the Shadows did not want to lose control of one of their most powerful weapons in light of an underground resistance, however small?



[ April 23, 2004, 18:23: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[grumbler]

Originally posted by jimbob:
Suggestions from SEIV B5 beta test:

Oh, I liked this mod a great deal. However, here are some of my suggestions to make the game better. Sorry this is so long, but it's got most of my ideas/input/observations.

This is exactly the kind of input needed. Thanks for taking the time. Keep making suggestions.

1.The number of weapons and the research grid are too complex. I know that the creators of the mod likely thought that this was great, but from a practical stand point, especially considering that the tech tree has not been drawn out, it simply ends up costing the player a lot of time of scrolling through the tech files. Not exciting or fun. Those who do not wish to do this will lose of course, and so it brings an entirely new aspect to the game – scrolling through data files – which isn’t the point of the game at all!
Also, many of the weapons higher up the research scale are actually worse! Combat Lasers is a fine example (vs lasers).

This is THE critical component of any mod, and unfortunately a hard one to deal with. I was so pround when I figured out a way to make non-useful techs "invisible" to a race, but aghast when i found that it made them unavailable to every race. It is hard to make tech work corectly.

2.The races are not balanced, especially when it comes to the ancients. It is important that the Ancients start out more advanced than the other races, but they are WAY to advanced (IMHO) and there is simply no way for the lesser races to affect them. I have several suggestions to make the minor races more important (some in non-military ways!):
2.a. Significantly reduce the capacity of the Ancients to produce minerals, radioactives and organics. Can you see a Vorlon out picking weeds? Maybe working the mines? Of course not! That’s what the plebes … erm, lesser races are for. My first recommendation for the mod is that resource production be seriously reduced for the Ancients. This will do three things:
2.a.i. Though the Ancients are very strong, they will have to act politically to build up alliances. Now the lesser races will finally be important (besides selling their poplulations and colony ships to the Ancients, which pretty well sums up my involvement with them in the Last game.)
2.a.ii. The minor races will need to make public alliances, that is, they will also need to take sides in the wars. Of course some players may chose to just give gifts of resources also, and so fly under the radar…
2.a.iii. I know that some people will say “oh, but wouldn’t the Ancients use automated (robotic) mining operations?” To which I reply, did we see or hear of any in the series? Me, I’m thinking that both Ancient races were more than happy to let organics do the dirty work – who wants to be Lord over machines after all! As a concession, I’d suggest that the Ancients would be able to research full automation, but that this would be less efficient than just making some friends.

2.b. Significantly increase the ship costs of the Ancients. True, this will bring the build times up for them, but we’re not talking about building crappy little tugs like what the Minbari have (heeheehee). We’re talking great ships of the Ancients! The Shadow of course have to grow parts of their ships, and that can’t be quick. It will also bring up the maintenance costs, which will indebt the Ancients even more to the minor races.

2.c. Do not only disallow the construction of Colony ships by the Ancients, but also don’t give them any ground troops! This way they can’t land and take over other people’s planets either. We’d need to find a way to make the Ancient partisans stronger though. This way the Ancients can defend quite well, but will not be able to take over any planets unless they buy troops from lesser races, or work in concert with their allies (and that’s a bit more of what we want to see, right?).

I think the short-term solution is to remove the ancients entirely, and the mid-term solution to make the Ancients unplyable as "human" races. Ultimately the balance will be struck, but only through lots of playteseting.

3. The build times for buildings is about 40% too slow.

easily fixable.

4. I played the pirates, and they really really really sucked. They could use some sort of advantages. I suggest that they should not be able to colonize either, but that their construction rate shouldn’t be as low as it was. Perhaps a lowered maintenance cost for their ships (see recyclers in P&N mods). I’d also suggest that they could have boarding party capacity for all their living quarters … after all, everybody on board a pirate ships is a pirate! And perhaps a couple of unique weapons that would stun/scramble the defending marines of ships they are going to take over (could just have some advancements that give a component with a better boarding skill and call it “shock grenade” etc.)

I am not convinced that "pirates" are viable in the SE4 world. maybe we can make them work, but they are a long way behind making the actual races work.

5. Finally, the “uber weapon” in this mod was the satellite. They always had better range than ship weapons that could take them out, and so satellites would always win. This needs some sort of balancing too.

Yep. satellites should be the primary defensive system, but not be unbeatable. Playtesting is required. I think sats are more game-destabilizing as warp point defenses than as planetary defenses. maybe part of the solution is to eliminate the "satellite layer" capability.