Bug or Feature: Multiple Ship Training Facilities

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Wardad:
BUT.... THERE ARE NO GAS MOONS!!!
Gas Giant races are at a serious early game disadvantage.

Well, it's not as bad as all that. For one thing the training fac's aren't what I would call an early game tech anyway. Many people devote a lot of early research points to the military science branch, so they can appear relativly early in the game though.

It doesn't change the maximum amount of experience the ships can acquire. It only makes them able to get that training faster.

Geoschmo

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Growltigga:
cats are not great economic administrators

I suppose that's mainly because they have no pockets to speak of. If cats had invented pants they would no doubt be the dominant species on the planet.

Geoschmo

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Oh? Why invent pants when someone else can manage the money for you? And why evolve hands when someone else can open the catfood cans for you?

"On the planet Earth, Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, and so on... conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than Man for precisely the same reasons." -- Douglas Adams

[ July 08, 2002, 17:46: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Wardad:
Multiple Training Facilities,

BUT.... THERE ARE NO GAS MOONS!!!
Gas Giant races are at a serious early game disadvantage.

There are no gas moons because the data files don't create them. You could mod "double planet" gas giants if you wsnted to.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Wardad:
BUT.... THERE ARE NO GAS MOONS!!!
Gas Giant races are at a serious early game disadvantage.

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Rock, Paper, Sledge Hammer

Um. It's not planet type per se, it's atmosphere that's most limiting. Gas-giant players simplyhave to make an estimate: will Rock or Ice colonisation give them more benefit first?

Then there's the comparative advantage vacuum-"breathers" get, since all moons are airless.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
I will give you the fact that the token forces send by The British were considered sufficient to beat (and would have) the Americans in a European style battle but also keep in mind that the vast bulk of those forces were German mercenaries rather than British regulars (who were off duffing up the French)

Yea, round about 20k "Hessen" (the state of Germany I'm from ). They were never beaten in an open battle. General Washington however got lucky and a plague stroke the Hessen. This weakened force was attacked and destroyed by him finally right after (or one?) Christmas day.

[Fyron]

BUT.... THERE ARE NO GAS MOONS!!!
Gas Giant races are at a serious early game disadvantage.

Play Fyron's Quadrant Mod, and that problem is solved.

[Puke]

yeah, i have always been of the opinion that washington was a fairly lously general. and i'll grant you that improper tactics played a part in our early struggles in viet nam, but it was mainly politics holding us back in the end. i dont think we 'lost' in viet nam any more than the british 'lost' in 1812. it was an unpopular war at home, they didnt have much to gain from a prolonged conflict, so they packed up and left. so did we. similar in korea, we quit because McArthur didnt want to nuke china.

as to training levels though, i think its fairly clear to everyone the importance that it plays. i think training should be as important or more important than it is, but that it should be costly. it takes a great deal of money to keep your military trained during peacetime. i think that to represent this that overall maintainance costs should be increased, OR, training facilities should confer a system-wide maintainance PENALTY.

i also wish experience levels would decrease over time, say 2% a year or something.

regarding starting disadvangage for gassy types, it depends on the game. gassers always have it hard starting out. gas will have it even harder in a 'colonize only own type' games. and unless you can easily steal some 'none' breathers, then races breathing 'none' will have a distinct advantage. not only do they get those swanky moons like they did before, but they can now become uber training and shipbuilding complexes.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Spuzzum:
Just because something lets you do something, doesn't mean it's right. If that wasn't the case, then I could go out right now, get a ferry ride to Vancouver Island, and shoot Premier Gordon Campbell (our Liberal provincial moron/leader). I sure as heck could do it (and believe me, I really want to!), but I wouldn't because it isn't the right thing to do*. ;-)

That argument is false Spuzzum. What you are missing is that this isn't just a matter of a game flaw allowing you to do something you aren't supposed to be able to do. The game doesn't say you aren't supposed to be able to do this. You are making an assumption based on incomplete evidence.

You may be capable of assasinating the PM, but you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's against the laws of Canada and the inalienable laws of mankind.

Just because you say it's wrong to have multiple training faciliites doesn't meean it is wrong. If a future patch were made that made it against the rules, but because of a mistake the fix didn't work and you still could do it, then it would be an exploit and cheating to continue doing it. Until then it is clearly not.

If I arbitrarily say it's unfair to attack an enemy without warning, or without giving them time to prepare defenses, do you have to not do that? Would you be cheating if you did it? Of course not.

Geoschmo

[Gil Hamilton]

Originally posted by Puke:
"... similar in korea, we quit because McArthur didnt want to nuke china."

Actually, MacArthur DID want to nuke the 120000+ Chinese descending on the Chosan Basin and also those in their staging areas north of the Yaloo. He was fired by the then President Eisenhower becausa Ike told him no, Mac told the press what he felt about Ike and was sacked.

As far as Vietnam goes...When the shackles were released from the USAF and they were allowed to fight the war "their" way for 6 days, ie...bombing Hanoi and associated infrastructure, the North's efforts were set back for months. A 6 month campaign could have won that war, or at least set things so that a democratic gov't. could have had a chance.

So, the training doesn't seem to matter as much as what is actually done with the troops and weapons.

[Puke]

Thanks Gil, youre absolutely right on Eisenhower v MacArthur, i had my personalities crossed. regarding Korea and Viet Nam, both were largely influenced by industrial output. we had more, and could field more hardware and better hardware. well, better up until the mouse gun.

As I understand it, the Tet offensive left the North horribly over-extended, and as you say, 6 months could probably have ended it for us.

a better example of training might be the recent Afghan conflict. look at what we were able to do there compared to what the Russians were able to do. Sure we had more money to throw at the problem, but I like to think that we're a little better at it too.

In SE4, i think that experience and training should be able to turn the tide of any battle being fought by forces that are fairly evenly matched, or at least close to being fairly evenly matched. Industrial output, on the otherhand, should be the deciding factor in any WAR. I am fairly happy with the 20/50 experience limits as they stand, but i would be interested in hearing arguments for either raising or lowering them.

also, i wish that missile ships would gain XP as fast as beam or PD ships. seems silly. maybe if it was all fleet experience and not ship experience.