Better Know a (Bad) Pretender: the Terrible Three

[chrispedersen]

Huh. maybe?

I used freak lord to do a series of crossbreeding.
I always got 1 good result, 3 medium results and tons of crap.

Never compared that to other casters..

[vfb]

I tried a Freak Lord, and used similar buffs:
- Summon Earthpower
- Invuln
- Mistform
- Personal Quickness
I probably threw in a Regen too.

He was wearing rainbow armor, and had a reinvig ammy. Even quickened he didn't work up too much fatigue.

But he was total crap at killing stuff, and he has low HP even if he trapezes from high dom. He got killed by some big Shin warriors. I suppose he could have killed indies, but by the time you're at Alt-4 Const-4, there aren't a lot of indies to kill.

Trample sucks if you don't have a whole bunch of tramplers.

[thejeff]

What turn do you get Alt-3/Conj-3 on? How many provinces does he take in the first year? And could you get more with him asleep and better scales for more troops?

An SC for expansion is most useful very early. Preferably from turn 1 or 2. Maybe, under some circumstances, long enough to research a single level in one path, or forge a couple of trinkets.
Beyond that, in MP, indies will be gone before he can take enough to earn his keep.

[FAJ]

Indies may be gone, but after early expansion, he is still a rainbow and is useful in the late game with his paths/slots.

He doesn't have to earn his keep all upfront.

[Pablomatic]

Originally Posted by FAJ

Indies may be gone, but after early expansion, he is still a rainbow and is useful in the late game with his paths/slots.

He doesn't have to earn his keep all upfront.

I agree. Yes, he's not an SC right out of the box. Yes, a better SC could expand earlier, and yes, after the research needed, the expansion phase is well underway/winding down, but...

He moves 3 provinces a turn so as soon as the research is there he can quickly switch to offense. Jomon and other nations that need a 40+ soldier army to reliably expand spend tons of money on expansion teams, but the Freak Lord will give you one cheap expansion team for the mid-late expansion phase. He's cheap to design too, so good scales.

I have also taken him asleep in SP for more paths/better scales, but to get his full benefit you need him awake. He speeds research, then speeds expansion, then speeds sight searching, then becomes an astral master with three misc slots.

For a long time I was obsessed with unlocking Jomon's seemingly great potential in Dom vanilla. Jomon has trouble expanding, and trouble funding large expansion parties (because I take disorder and production scales). The freak lord is the solution in that situation for Jomon in my opinion. He even gets Jomon into death magic for Oni Generals and Dai Oni's, and blood for potential bloodstones for your dragon mages (assuming you get into the water).

In CBM Jomon is much easier to play, and should probably take the Celestial General (with auto-spawn shield bearing troops to complement the samurai archers, and mounted archers to complement samurai cavalry).


BTW, after struggling with vanilla Jomon for so long, CBM Jomon feels like I'm cheating!

Keep in mind, I'm new to MP games, so I certainly respect/take seriously OmniKron Warrior's assessment of the Freak Lord's flaws. I disagree with him, but that may be because I have a SP perspective and he a MP one.

I am waiting for an LA game I can get into as Jomon to implement some of these ideas. If it's a vanilla game, and I'm playing Jomon, you can *almost* bet your life that I'm taking the Freak Lord.

[rdonj]

A celestial general is certainly helpful for jomon in the expansion phase... I used him in a game and was more or less tied for 2nd fastest expansion. Used his freespawn as arrow catchers/lancebreakers and jomonese cavalry to do the actual killing.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Pablomatic

In CBM Jomon is much easier to play, and should probably take the Celestial General (with auto-spawn shield bearing troops to complement the samurai archers, and mounted archers to complement samurai cavalry).

Samurai archers? Ew. Do not buy. Useless, and more dangerous to you than your opponent.

Go-Hatamoto, Aka-Oni, cavalry, and Yamabushi basically cover all your truly worthwhile units. Samurai with naginata are an ok replacement for Yamabushi away from your capital. Everything else is crap.

I like pure scales play with Jomon. Although you can also bless your yamabushi - 7 W9 yamabushi expand just fine. I've certainly never had a real problem expanding with them.

[Pablomatic]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Samurai archers? Ew. Do not buy. Useless, and more dangerous to you than your opponent.

Go-Hatamoto, Aka-Oni, cavalry, and Yamabushi basically cover all your truly worthwhile units. Samurai with naginata are an ok replacement for Yamabushi away from your capital. Everything else is crap.

I like pure scales play with Jomon. Although you can also bless your yamabushi - 7 W9 yamabushi expand just fine. I've certainly never had a real problem expanding with them.

Well, there are different ways to play them. I agree Go-Hatamotos are good. Never tried a major bless with them, doesn't seem right, and I am surprised 7 yamabushi can do anything even with a bless. What if the enemy has archers?

Samurai archers are OK, and useful for many situations, just be careful with placement of your un-shielded infantry, or better yet use all archer or all infantry armies in the early going.

How are you summoning your Aka-Onis with no death mages and they're conj 3 I think in vanilla? I suppose you could have your pretender start summoning them, but 3 for 10 fire gems?

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Pablomatic

Well, there are different ways to play them. I agree Go-Hatamotos are good. Never tried a major bless with them, doesn't seem right, and I am surprised 7 yamabushi can do anything even with a bless. What if the enemy has archers?

Samurai archers are OK, and useful for many situations, just be careful with placement of your un-shielded infantry, or better yet use all archer or all infantry armies in the early going.

How are you summoning your Aka-Onis with no death mages and they're conj 3 I think in vanilla? I suppose you could have your pretender start summoning them, but 3 for 10 fire gems?

Pretty sure Aka-Oni is the unit you can buy with red armor.

Samurai archers are not OK. They cost too many resources for a weapon that is crap against 85% of the units other players will be fielding, because armor is heavier in LA. Longbows don't cut it anymore. And as with all archers, massing is key, and at 20+ resources each, you just can't mass them acceptably. I'd take shortbows at 3-4 resources apiece over those, because they'll be much more effective with flaming arrows since they're far more massable.

Regarding yamabushi vs. archers
I might have archer pulled in the games i tested them with using a couple ashigaru.

It may also be the case that they were simply fast enough to not notice/care about archers. Indie archers are shortbows after all.

I'm not saying i would normally take a major bless for Jomon, I like pure scales. But it can work for a smaller game.

[Sombre]

I always feel like aka-oni should be restricted in some way. They're a famous and specific group of troops under the command of a heroic leader, but essentially they make up 75% of Jomonese armies. Bit weird. Wouldn't mind seeing them cap only or something.