OT: Contact - Page 4

Renegade 13 · #31 May 19th, 2004, 01:21 AM

Its simply a question that we as humans can not imagine the answer to. We can not comprehend or imagine something that is unimaginable from our human viewpoint. We have no frame of reference.

Renegade 13 · #32 May 19th, 2004, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
As for Foster fans... I think she's cute too... but fellas, you are out of luck... you don't have the right equipment for her...

Huh??

geoschmo · #33 May 19th, 2004, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
AT, you are just avoiding answering the question. Space is either finite or infinite. If it is finite, what is on the other side of it? What is on the other side of the border of empty nothingness? More nothingness? That would be more space... This would be part of a proof by contradiction that it is infinite in size...

This is an interesting mind exersize, but it's not any sort of proof. For one thing, space is not nothing. It's most definetly something. Saying that space is nothing is like saying that zero is not a number.

If the universe is finite, what's beyond it could be truely nothing, or it could be something else all together. But whether it's something, or nothing doesn't make it any more a part of the universe. Because the universe is not everything that is, it is merely everything that is part of the universe. So there is your proof that the universe is finite.

If you represent all the matter in the universe as some numbers, then the space between the matter could be said to be zero. Then beyond the edge of the universe would be L.

[ May 19, 2004, 01:19: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Aiken · #34 May 19th, 2004, 02:33 AM

Do you really imagine that universe has some kind of border or wall if it's infinite? But 4-dimensional sphere (torus or anything) has no borders.

narf poit chez BOOM · #35 May 19th, 2004, 03:24 AM

And beyond that border would be the possibility of life.

No matter how you cut it, as long as you don't twist the universe up like a pretzel, there's an infinite amount of life out there. Including other races.

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
AT, you are just avoiding answering the question. Space is either finite or infinite. If it is finite, what is on the other side of it? What is on the other side of the border of empty nothingness? More nothingness? That would be more space... This would be part of a proof by contradiction that it is infinite in size...

This is an interesting mind exersize, but it's not any sort of proof. For one thing, space is not nothing. It's most definetly something. Saying that space is nothing is like saying that zero is not a number.

If the universe is finite, what's beyond it could be truely nothing, or it could be something else all together. But whether it's something, or nothing doesn't make it any more a part of the universe. Because the universe is not everything that is, it is merely everything that is part of the universe. So there is your proof that the universe is finite.

If you represent all the matter in the universe as some numbers, then the space between the matter could be said to be zero. Then beyond the edge of the universe would be L.

geoschmo · #36 May 19th, 2004, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
And beyond that border would be the possibility of life.

No matter how you cut it, as long as you don't twist the universe up like a pretzel, there's an infinite amount of life out there. Including other races.

Ah, but you cannot say that for sure. If beyond the border is nothing, how can there be life in nothing? If it is not nothing, but something beyond the border of the finite universe, then there may be the possibility of life. But the question is how many intelligent species exsist in the universe, not how many intelligent species exsist in the universe and beyond. So, you see, the total number of intelligent species in the universe is clearly finite. Greater than or equal to one, or zero depending on whether you believe us to be an intelligent species, but not infintie.

narf poit chez BOOM · #37 May 19th, 2004, 05:16 AM

*Whacks Geo*

And beleive me, that's an appropriate responce.

Oh, a second point...I find that most people don't seem to be able to understand that nothing means nothing and therefore does not have a value. Note that I did not say cannot have a value, but does not have a value. Doesn't have a place to put a value, either. Doesn't have anything, isn't anything, because it's nothing!

I'm just a little iratated by metaphysical nonsense.

Not you. Your clearly making up nonsense for fun.

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:
Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
And beyond that border would be the possibility of life.

No matter how you cut it, as long as you don't twist the universe up like a pretzel, there's an infinite amount of life out there. Including other races.

Ah, but you cannot say that for sure. If beyond the border is nothing, how can there be life in nothing? If it is not nothing, but something beyond the border of the finite universe, then there may be the possibility of life. But the question is how many intelligent species exsist in the universe, not how many intelligent species exsist in the universe and beyond. So, you see, the total number of intelligent species in the universe is clearly finite. Greater than or equal to one, or zero depending on whether you believe us to be an intelligent species, but not infintie.

Renegade 13 · #38 May 19th, 2004, 06:11 AM

It's all irrelevant anyways. What does it matter? It has no effect on our everyday lives, and, although it's an interesting discussion, it really doesn't matter!! Where/If the universe is finite/infinite and where and what lies beyond the 'edge' of the universe...NO ONE KNOWS!! No one can even guess with any degree of accuracy. And it's most likely a problem that will not be solved within any of our lifetimes.

narf poit chez BOOM · #39 May 19th, 2004, 06:54 AM

Yes, in one sense. In another, it's important.

dogscoff · #40 May 19th, 2004, 10:42 AM

OK... moving on a little:

Who here thinks that indisputable evidence of life (whether microbial or bigger, past or present) will be found on Mars? Show of hands please.

If we imagine for a minute that such evidence *is* found, what does that do to everyone's beliefs regarding extra-terrestrial intelligence? If life can appear on *two* different planets within a single star system, surely that pushes the Drake equation figures way up.

Would that be enough to change At's mind?