Poland OOB

[Pibwl]

ZU-23-2 AA guns

An issue of ZU-23-3 gun mutations is vague, because Polish Army doesn't bother to inform citizens which versions and with what sights they use, but for Wikipedia purpose I researched the subject from several articles in military press about sights development for these guns.

088 ZU-23-2 AA-Gun (basic Soviet variant FC=5) - Poland didn't buy a license to manufacture ZAP-23 opto-mechanical vector sights, only basic optical sights, so it might have had worse FC, than Soviet version (now all have 5). On the other hand, maybe ZU-23-2 guns with ZAP-23 sights should have better FC, than weak 5? (worse than WWII 37mm gun or 40mm Bofors, which have 10)..
Here's Bulgarian manufacturer's description: https://arconpartners.net/anti-aircr...-sight-zap-23/

I don't know however (and maybe nobody knows) how rich were versions sold to numerous African or Asian countries - while we can assume, that Warsaw Pact (except for Poland) had standard ZAP-23 sights, which is mentioned in Russian publications as standard equipment. Poland wanted to develop own sights instead - what took 20 years...


79 ZUR-23-2S Jod (Polish ZU-23 combined with Strela missiles and new sights GP-1R of 1988, FC=15) - vision should be 0 (15), just like basic ZU-23 (no night sights at all).

619 ZU-23-2E (improved AA gun with new CKE-1 sights of 2002, FC=20) - name should be ZU-23-2K in fact (E was a proposal with central battery fire control, while K have new individual collimator sights).
Now it has vision 40, while it should have 0 from the start, and 30 only from 2004 (CKE-1N sights with passive night vision). Vision 40 was obtained only in 2016 (CKE-1T sights with TI). These versions might be added.

Icon should be 1979 (ordinary ZU-23, without missiles)

BTW: thanks to CKE sights and new Polish APDS ammo, efficient range grew to 5500 m, but I don't know if it matters.


95 ZUR23-2KG Jodek (Polish ZU-23 with Grom missiles of 2002) - FC should be 20 (now 15), like unit 619 of the same year with the same family sights CKE-2 (it can engage targets flying 500 m/s, comparing to 300 m/s in case of ZAP-23).
Vision should be 0, and 30 only from 2004 (CKE-2N sights, as above)

169 ZUR23-2KG Jodek - it might represent version with more advanced CP-1 sights with laser RF, but it has no TI, only passive night channel (now: vision 40).
It was introduced in 2007 (or more safely: 2008) (now: 106).

I would suggest to improve FC to 25 (now 20) - CP-1 programmable sights are told to be big improvement, able to fight guided bombs and drones.

[Pibwl]

SAMs and MANPADS


85 Aster 30 - well, seems that for 5 years we should already have Aster SAM... of course there aren't any and there are no such plans anymore.

611 Loara SP-SAM - with Crotale - pure fiction


201 Grom Team - basic version was delivered from 2002 according to newest publications (now 101).
Picture is Strela - photos are eg. https://wml.wat.edu.pl/index.php/his...rgrom-zkr.html , https://www.mesko.com.pl/zestawy-prz...wlotnicze.html

205 Grom Team - initial version, ending date should be extended at least until 2001 (see above), or rather until some 2005. Better name is Grom-I Team to differentiate from Grom. Picture is Strela

weapon #126 Grom-I SAM - kill statistisc should be the same as #127 Grom - there is no information, that the warhead changed (now they are like old Strela-2). On the other hand, it seems, that warhead size of both should be 4, not 5, like Igla and most MANPADS (it has 1.27 kg - French Mistral with warhead 5 has 2,95 kg).
Accuracy probably should be lower - homing head was basing upon Russian export (simpler) Igla, so it should probably be 118 at best (like basic Russian Igla), maybe even 110-115 (now 120).
In #127 Grom the homing head was much improved by the Polish and it is 130 (justified).

The weapon is also used by Georgia (the same issue with Strela picture, unit 351 Grom SAM)

There appeared recently new modern Piorun SAM - a development of Grom (formerly Grom-M), delivered from 2019. It is said, that accuracy and target detection have been much improved, to world's best level - although Grom has already accuracy 130, and I don't know if any MANPADS in the game is better than 130. Range was enhanced to 400-6500 m. The launcher is fitted with TI sights.


612 Poprad, 614 Zubr P - it is the same Poprad SAM system in fact, but 612 is prototype on Iveco truck, and 614 is final vehicle on ligtly armoured Zubr chassis, and it is the only one that should be taken into account - with Poprad name. However, icon 76 of 612 Poprad is better.
Two vehicles of trial series (on Zubr chassis) were tested by the Army in 2014, but series vehicled were commissioned only from 2018.
One vehicle should be armed with #126 Grom (not Grom-I), and another with Piorun SAM, first fired from 2020. There are 8 missiles carried.
There should be no machine gun, especially ancient DsHK.
It has TI head and laser RF. But it can't swim.
The launcher itself is not armoured, so maybe it should not have armour all around.
Size 3 would be more appropriate for mid-size truck (now 2) (same for unit 726 Zubr scout vehicle)


BTW, from 11/07 Indonesia uses a small number of Poprad systems with Grom missiles on unarmoured 6x6 Land Rover chassis, and ZUR23-2KG-I AA guns, also with Groms (Polish 169) - https://www.armyrecognition.com/indo...sh_poland.html

Polish export name is Kobra, reportedly they are named Aster in Indonesia, but I can't confirm it. As far as I know, only 8 vehicles were delivered in two batches by 2010.

[blazejos]

Here best photos of Żubr MRAP vehicle which I found on AMZ Kutno official page ZubrP is AA version http://amz.pl/pojazdy-wojskowe/opancerzone/zubr-p/

And here only drawings of this vehicle found primitive but best what we have

[Pibwl]

As for T-55AM Merida you're probably right, I didn't want to research details there...

Originally Posted by Pibwl

There appeared recently new modern Piorun SAM - a development of Grom (formerly Grom-M), delivered from 2019. It is said, that accuracy and target detection have been much improved, to world's best level - although Grom has already accuracy 130, and I don't know if any MANPADS in the game is better than 130. Range was enhanced to 400-6500 m. The launcher is fitted with TI sights.

Many good words were recently said about Piorun, concerning its usage in Ukraine. There is an opinion among experts (Polish ones though), that it might be the most advanced MANPADS at the moment, with effective homing head algorithms and advanced decoy selection. There are pre-programed modes, optimized for aircraft, UAV and misiles, and for weather conditions. Reportedly no other MANPAD have proximity fuze, which Piorun has. During trials it destroyed 57 mm S-5 rockets.

[Pibwl]

I know this is rather not important, but for a sake of precision, an autocorrection according to more detailed article:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

619 ZU-23-2E (improved AA gun with new CKE-1 sights of 2002, FC=20) - name should be ZU-23-2K in fact (E was a proposal with central battery fire control, while K have new individual collimator sights).
Now it has vision 40, while it should have 0 from the start, and 30 only from 2004 2005(CKE-1N sights with passive night vision). Vision 40 was obtained only in 2016 (CKE-1T sights with TI). These versions might be added.

95 ZUR23-2KG Jodek (Polish ZU-23 with Grom missiles of 2002) - FC should be 20 (now 15), like unit 619 of the same year with the same family sights CKE-2 (it can engage targets flying 500 m/s, comparing to 300 m/s in case of ZAP-23).
Vision should be 0, and 30 only from 2004 2005 (CKE-2N sights, as above)

584 Dzik 2 - (class Gun APC Wheeled) - it isn't used in infantry recce units, but exclusively as APC for Military Gendarmerie Special Units (Oddziały Specjalne Żandarmerii Wojskowej), created around the same time...

There could be created such special unit (class Police?), named eg. OS ZW Squad or SpecZW Squad (or section). They were used among others in some peacekeeping duties in Africa. I guess the squad should be around 6 men, armament is mostly #026 wz.96 Beryl SMG and MP-5. ...

From 2016 they use Plasan SandCat, named Szop in Poland (carry 8)

I asked at Zandarmeria Wojskowa fb page, and a section has 8 man, currently armed with MP-5 and HK416.
Szop (SandCat) vehicles are armed with Mk 17 GL or 7.62mm minigun (some generic light MRV icon might be used, like 680 or 7718)

[Pibwl]

I've found great article about ATGM in Polish service until 1989, for the first time making wider usage of archives ("Nowa Technika Wojskowa" 2/2021) - some dates, which I tried to figure out years ago from partial sources, might be corrected:

30 BRDM Trzmiel - in 1962 there were only few launchers delivered for training, and they appeared in units from mid-63 (now 1/62). Withdrawn from service already by 12/78 (now 89) (stored until 1985, but not included in mobilization plans).

Would need a change in 082 SP-ATGM Platoon, as the first unit.

433 GAZ-69 Trzmiel - same as above, but delivered to units only in 1965. Rare vehicle, used only in airborne division.

24 BRDM-2 Malutka2 - delivered only on 1974 (now 73).
Wrong name - it's not Malutka-2, but Malutka-P (could be BRDM2 Malutka-P, just Malutka-P, or 9P133 Malutka-P)

33 BRDM Malutka (Malutka-M) - most probably only two launchers were used for training (other documents indicate 12 vehicles, but it is less reliable, and in 1971 only two are mentioned)

34 BRDM-2 Konkurs - used in units only from 1985 (now 84).
Probably withdrawn by now, but I have no precise info.

73 Fagot ATGM - appeared in units already in 1977 (now 79)

481 Para Fagot ATGM - not used by airborne forces at all at that time (I don't know how about later 490-491 units)

638 Metis Para ATGM - already withdrawn (around 2010?, after an advent of Spike)

794 WOT JavelinTeam - may be available even earlier [now 1/22] - in 6/21 first batch of operators completed training and first ones were fired.

[blazejos]

Found interesting information

Rosomak APC without tower with small rotational MMG which I proposed earlier as a addition to Polish OOB is know in army as Rosomak M-3
They were used in Afganistan and Chad and after that returned to Poland. Here were put in storages and now are rebuild to new variant

Rosomak-S which is transporter for two Spike-LR sets. Visible is that small tower will be removed and probably many changes inside


source about Rosomak M-3 https://zbiam.pl/wojsko-chce-kolejne-rosomaki-m-3/
source about rebuilding to Rosomak S https://zbiam.pl/przekazanie-kto-rosomak-s/

in December 2021 was mentioned that all ordered vehicles are already rebuild to version which is know by nickname "SpikeBus"
https://zbiam.pl/artykuly/nowe-rosomaki-s-juz-w-wojsku/


Here also photo of Polish airborne PWA Aero with mortar mentioned earlier which is in use by Polish paratroopers icon proposed in earlier post

[DRG]

http://www.military-today.com/apc/zubr_mrap.htm

[blazejos]

So according to AMZ Kutno website and wikipedia https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMZ_%C5%BBubr they are now two versions

and also this article https://milmag.pl/mspo-2021-system-o...od-pit-radwar/

Żubr P Poprad (AA version)
- with Grom rockets (older variant)
- new Piorun AA rockets (new production vehicles)
Don't know if all were modernised all two version existing together probably this second and all will be modernised to Piorun when older rockets will be used
- variant with radar Soła & Bystra
- WG-35 FOO vehicle for battery of Poprad

Żubr WD (command variant)

Żubr MMSR (with radio-location device N-26A/MMSR)

Here how Poprad unit my looks like in organisation

[Pibwl]

Misc.

66 Heavy Truck - typical US truck picture, strange-looking for Poland, should be replaced eg. with 29168 (Zil-131) or better 29388 (modern Polish Jelcz)

77 HMMWV Trynka AT - there are no variants with Spike and 12.7mm MG. There are used M1045 with Spike only, named Tumak-5, not Trynka https://modelwork.pl/topic/11777-hmm...ojsku-polskim/
Possibly uncovered 98 UKM-2000 CMG could be mounted in need, although there is no such mention...

580, 583 HMMWV Trynka - Trynka was only proposed 12.7mm MG variant. It should be renamed Tumak with 98 UKM-2000 CMG

921 HMMWV [utility vehicle] - utility variant is not armed (especially old SGM MG is not used).


158,159,951 F-16c Jastrzab - F-16C Jastrzab would be better and consistent.


191 Hibneryt-P SPAA - its ZU-23-2 gun should be updated according to 619 ZU-23-2E(K) standard (FC=20, RF=10), with night vision. Used already from around 10/07 (now 1/08)

Ordinary unarmoured 200 Hibneryt also used better ZU-23-2K guns when they were available, but I think that Hibneryt-P would be enough.

581 Irbis - not accepted, sole prototype.


545 Light Truck - picture looks strange for Poland. In fact there were no 4x4 light trucks for 12 men used in Poland (only jeeps or medium trucks). Anyway, since it is used among others to tow Vasilek mortars in the game, the photo could be changed to GAZ-66 32174, used in a small number, and made available from 1/84.


584 Dzik 2 - (class Gun APC Wheeled) - it isn't used in infantry recce units, but exclusively as APC for Military Gendarmerie Special Units (Oddziały Specjalne Żandarmerii Wojskowej), created around the same time. Carry capacity is up to 8. Better photo with ZW markings might be Pm29528. It seems they were used only until around 2015. Nicknamed Dzik-2 'Gucio'. Could be class 23 APC Wheel, which is free in this period.

There could be created such special unit (class Police?), named eg. OS ZW Squad or SpecZW Squad (or section). They were used among others in some peacekeeping duties in Africa. I guess the squad should be around 6 men, armament is mostly #026 wz.96 Beryl SMG and MP-5. I don't know if LMGs are used as a standard.
Photos are eg https://d-art.ppstatic.pl/kadry/k/r/...6b_o_large.jpg https://zbrojni.blob.core.windows.ne...2/Images/18756
https://zoom.mon.gov.pl/static/zdjecia/IMG_8026.jpg
https://static.polityka.pl/_resource...319e_f1400x900
Picture 29238 of Grom special unit could fit eventually

From 2016 they use Plasan SandCat, named Szop in Poland (carry 8) https://www.defence24.pl/plasan-sand...erii-wojskowej

Also heavy M1151 HMMWV with FRAG armour were used by OS ZW from 2009, with UKM-2000 CMG.
https://modelwork.pl/topic/11777-hmm...ojsku-polskim/

Such HMMWV with FRAG kit were also used as a scout vehicle in Iraq, but I don't know since when (some 2007?)


699 GAZ-46 MAW - SMG MG was never mounted upon GAZ-46, in any country. It had no mountings for any MG.

703 BAV-485 6x6 - as a rule it wasn't armed (there could be the second entry). Polish name was BAW (number wasn't used, and 6x6 is redundant) (btw, number is redundant also in other countries, because its Russian army name was BAV, and factory name ZiL-485)


723 Tarpan Rys - in fact Honker Rys - it was experimental proposal of armed utility car with very limited use in Poland. It's better to replace it with Honker Skorpion, keeping the same similar picture - used in Iraq from 10/04, lightly armoured (sides, maybe lower front, gunner's front), armed with 98 UKM-2000 CMG

726 Zubr - not accepted yet as a scout vehicle. Command vehicle Zubr-WD has been proposed for several years, but I don't know how is its status - few are used at best, and rather unarmed. May be preserved for future use.

752 ODS-LST (landing ship) - armament was #96 30 mm gun, not 14.5mm MG.

843 BTR-60PB - in Poland they were not numerous, and used only by the Police - in case of mobilization they could be used by the Police (#178 class). It concerns only formation 390. They would not be used by the army, especially contemporary WOT light infantry. Only few survived in police service by now.

920 Tarpan Honker [utility vehicle] - name should be just Honker. Picture is Mercedes - could be 29331, 29380, 29386.
It should not be armed apart from special patrol vehicles (see Skorpion above).

--
From 2005 there was adopted 12.7mm Tor sniper rifle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKW_Wilk

That's all as for now.