"MoD+Retreat" defeated w/o killing caster

[Foodstamp]

Aezeal said:
I Disagree with Foodstamp and Endo since it's been known for an enternity you can beat the spell but the fact remains that once the caster leaves the spell should end, it's an admitted bug by the makers too I think and if it's exploited it's enough reason to kick pplz in the nuts for it.

For it being "known for eternity" the spell can be defeated there were a lot of people saying otherwise.

The very vocal argument was that after everyone fled the field, the spell would continue forever no matter the circumstances. As far as being an admitted bug, you guys convinced the developers that you had tested the spell and that it did last forever after a mage+everyone retreated off the field. I can see where they would call that a bug, but it seems now the spell does not work like you all said.

You guys want the spell gone, changed, fine. But from reading the MP threads on the issue, we lost atleast one player from the community because he was called a cheater and ridiculed for a couple of pages on an MP thread for using this spell. The sad thing being of course, the people pointing the finger had no idea how the spell really worked.

Next time let's check our "jump to conclusions" mat at the door.

[calmon]

K said:
My battle takes place in Friendly Dominion(+1 Morale). Your battles probably take place in Neutral(+/-0) or Enemy Dominion(-1). Considering that your pretender is closer, it probably is enemy dominion.

That explains why my guys Retreat earlier in your games. Two points of morale is a big deal in a long battle.

I can't remember any battle were Lanka fled because of morale. They retreat after reaching battleturnlimit!

And even if not it was neutral ground (which is 1 morale difference!), so please don't tell us the battles ran this way because your commanders had morale 20 instead of 19!

[Sombre]

Foodstamp said:
The very vocal argument was that after everyone fled the field, the spell would continue forever no matter the circumstances. As far as being an admitted bug, you guys convinced the developers that you had tested the spell and that it did last forever after a mage+everyone retreated off the field. I can see where they would call that a bug, but it seems now the spell does not work like you all said.

From the buglist:

CBT Battlefield Enchantments Battlefield enchantments that affect the whole battlefield for the duration of the battle (e.g. Wrathful Skies, Darkness, Solar Brilliance etc) do not end when the mage who cast them leaves battlefield, even though they should.

This is an 'admitted' bug and applies to MoD. Fixing this bug avoids any need to do anything special to MoD.

[chrispedersen]

by the way you could just as well do the same thing with
something like a handful of mages and and Wrathful skies.

just blink them around the battlefield.

[chrispedersen]

For the record,
I completely agree about the spell should end wen the caster retreats. But I think it should be fixed as part of the generic fix it for all BE, not as an especial case.

Just as a brain storm, by the way.. wouldn't a few mages blinking around with void eyes, ALSO resolve the issue?

[K]

calmon said:

I can't remember any battle were Lanka fled because of morale. They retreat after reaching battleturnlimit!

And even if not it was neutral ground (which is 1 morale difference!), so please don't tell us the battles ran this way because your commanders had morale 20 instead of 19!

Well, having seen the effect of a single Standard, I'd argue that one point of morale is a big deal.

But, I did run the test ten more times this morning using your files and no other changes and I can't really account for your results. Even if I just hit Host, I keep getting consistent Lankan wins either by Seraph kills(2) or outfighting the MoD(8).

Are you running a mod? Are you patched to the latest version?

I did notice that the Seraph got killed in two of the games, which is interesting and I would have noticed with more test games. The False Horrors force him into melee and he's not casting his spells or retreating.

Look at the second game(same map and different set-up) or the third game I posted(Abysian army + Fire Storm vs. MoD + Storm + Wrathful Skies + Grip of Winter + Quagmire + Retreat). The third game actually ends pretty quick and is nicely impressive with fire, snow, and lightning pyrotechnics.

[calmon]

K, just take my save game and run it. I think you're not so stupid and count the victories, aren't you?

The outcome is always "lanka wins". The question is how they win. After battleturn limit lanka gets an autoroute! Most of the commanders and troops fled and just some few remains in the province.

[K]

calmon said:
K, just take my save game and run it. I think you're not so stupid and count the victories, aren't you?

The outcome is always "lanka wins". The question is how they win. After battleturn limit lanka gets an autoroute! Most of the commanders and troops fled and just some few remains in the province.

I guess I'm stupid.

Ok, I ran it five more times. In two there was a clear victory with no retreats, in two there was a victory and 1 or 4 mages ended up in neighboring provinces, and in the last one the seraph never go to cast because he was driven off.

What's your point?

I could alter the scripting like I did in the second posted game and there would be fewer retreating mages, but the three saved games I posted are all examples of outfighting the MoD. They are "proof of concept" games.

I could toss two more mages in and then have 100% repeatable games where no one retreats, but what would that prove? I've already shown the bare minimum needed to outfight a MoD.

Getting hit by any mage ambush involves losses. Hell, you should see what that same Seraph can do when scripted to cast Shimmering Fields and then Retreat. Watch the results of a powerful Beckoning or a Cold 3 Murdering Winter.

As far as I can tell, the essence of good DomIII play is taking a few gems and making your enemy lose more gems.

[calmon]

I did 5 tests in row with -d debug on. All 5 tests went 75 turns and end with an autoroute. The the complete logfile in the attachment. Search for 'turn 75'.

[Aezeal]

Would you please get your ego in check?

No-one cares whether you will accept the decisions of the devs, least of all them.


--> I agree with Sombre again.. must mean we are right