Mod: Vaettiheim 2.2

[Sombre]

Ok, minor update to v1.5

1.6 will probably be final - I await feedback before I make it.

[Sombre]

I've changed my mind about a few things in this mod, so a lot of values have been adjusted this time. I believe the nation will be considerably less underpowered now.

Perhaps the most major change is that Vaettihiem now has a full selection of fort types, including a stronger starting one.

v1.65 is attached to the first post, so give it a go and let me know if you have any ideas, as usual. I am totally willing to add a couple of new units, summons etc if they're suggested and make sense.

[llamabeast]

Once again I'm up too late looking at mods by accident.

I just signed on to say it was strange that all the forts were the same, but I see there's an update. Magic! So, having an update gives me a chance to notice any uppercase/lowercase errors.

(what the files are called) -> (what the mod says)
Vaetti groundbreaker(2).tga -> vaetti...
troll shaman(2).tga -> Troll Shaman(2).tga

I guess the easiest solution would be to have a convention that all filenames are entirely lowercase.

An entirely separate comment: Being as the draconians are meant to have come from the cold place where the vaetti now live, it seems a bit odd that they are cold blooded. Presumably these draconians are different and more hardy than your average draconians.

[Sombre]

Updated for use with 3.08. See first post for download.

I'm sorry I totally forgot to sort out the naming conventions,... but an easy fix once you know how I hope.

[llamabeast]

So, I've been thinking lots about the Vaettiheim troops, and I have quite a few suggestions. I don't know if you're still interested in making changes to this, or if you're more keen to work on Arga Dis etc now. In any case, I'd be more than happy to mock up any new units/try out some balance changes etc, but only with your permission - it is your baby after all.

Okay, onto the units:

Vaetti spearman - lovely. I like him a lot. Perfect staple unit.

Vaetti archer - Similarly, just right.

Both kinds of wolf rider - again, really good. I think you've got the pricing and balance just right for both.

I really enjoy playing with these various vaetti troops for some reason, I don't know why but I think they're great. I tried to play a mass-markata strategy with Kailasa once, but that went hideously wrong. Maybe I just like small units.

Vaetti groundbreaker - I think these are an excellent idea, (particularly the strength potion!) but somehow just not quite useful enough at the moment. I've been trying to mix them in with spearman to add a bit of punch. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work very well - I think it's their attack and defense stats (8 and 7 respectively), since their damage is quite respectable. Maybe the pick axe could be made less awful to attack with? I can see that they should be clumsy weapons, and the low defense rating is reasonable if disastrous for their survival, but the end result is that they're not much use in battle. I'd suggest increasing the attack rating of the pick axe by 2, and their base defense by 1 (they are experienced pick-axe users after all). They'd still be a difficult choice over the spearmen because of their terrible survivability, but they might at least work for causing damage. Their siege bonus could then be lowered to 2 or even 1 so that they don't become crazily effective when present in large numbers (there's likely to be many more of them around if they're useful in battle as well). Another possibility for improving their survivability would be giving them better armour.

Werewolf - I'd forgotten these existed! They look a little expensive to tempt me, but I haven't tested them so it's not a fair comment.

Moose Riders - I just can't work out what to do with these. As archers they're too expensive and take up too much space. In combat they're awful - mainly because they're too big. I know you've already made them a lot cheaper and better, but they're still missing something. Maybe the moose should have a powerful charge attack? Maybe the defense could be upped a little? Perhaps they could be cheaper?

I think actually I like the powerful charge option best - unleash two volleys, then... chaaarge! They might die, but they might just manage to break the enemies first.

I assume they'd look silly if they were size 3? That would be better. Another problem I guess is that this unit is already in dominions, so it seems inconsistent if they're changed too much. Still, I think it's better to change them if necessary.

Forest Troll - great, just right.

Draconian - I haven't got the knack of these either. I don't know if you realised, but in our duel I sent 800 gold's worth of draconians on a raid against you. Unfortunately I hadn't scouted very well, and landed in a province of independents behind your borders. It was only a moderately tough indy province, but they made short work of my draconians. 800 gold gone.

Of course, the main value in them is that they can fly. That's worth a lot. But still, they're just frustratingly bad - unless I'm misusing them, of course, which is quite possible.

Here's a thought I had: Replace the draconians with "Frost Draconians" or some such. Slightly smaller, maybe blue. They'd have no "cold blooded" tag, and be only size 3. This would be thematic, since they live in the frozen slopes of Crescent Mountain. They could even have a very weak cold aura. Anyway, I think making them size 3 would make them enormously better at a stroke. They've got good stats after all, they just get ganged up on horribly.

Okay, that's it for the units. Essentially I really like all of them, but can't work out how to use a few. I think already this is probably better than most vanilla races - generally there's several units in every lineup that I tend to ignore.

Now, I really like using masses of Vaetti, and I've been thinking that it would be nice if there were a couple more types of them. Here's a couple of ideas I had. I've written little descriptions, but only to give you an idea of what I had in mind.

Vaetti Scrounger

In the shadow of Crescent Mountain, life is harsh. The weaker or less lucky vaetti may struggle to survive, and be reduced to scavenging on the scraps left by their more fortunate kin. In times of war these desperate vaetti may often join armies in large numbers, finding worn and rusted weaponry and hoping to scrounge whatever they can in the wake of battle.

--

I like having silly numbers of units, and the vaetti are great for that, although their size 1 makes them look less numerous than they are. The thing is, they're not actually _that_ cheap - because they're really quite good soldiers. I was thinking it would be good to have a unit that really was very cheap, that you could mass in huge numbers to overwhelm the enemy.

These would cost 6 gold perhaps (I'm tempted to say 5 but that might be too low), and be generally a bit worse in every way than the normal spearman. They'd use a rusted sword, rusted shield and maybe normal leather armour. The rusted equipment might be resource free (being scrounged), making these easy to mass. They'll not do much good but they might just wear your opponent down or tire out his troops.


Vaetti Beast Catcher

In the forests around Crescent Mountain lurk many strange and hideous beasts. When the vaetti first fled there, many of them were killed when they strayed too far from the camps. And so, the vaetti organised teams of beast catchers equipped with nets, to venture into the forest and bring down the monstrous creatures that threatened them. The beast catchers were very successful, and have now become skilled at hunting down and ensnaring any monsters that stray too close to the vaetti camps.

--

These'd have nets, and maybe spears or something. They'd give the vaetti a chance against really tough opponents. They'd probably work very well in synergy with the groundbreakers, I guess. Balancing them would require a bit of thought, but other nations have net troops and they don't seem overpowered.

That's it for now! Like I say, I'd be up for creating prototype versions of these if you'd be interested but don't have the time, but no worries if you're not keen on the ideas.

[llamabeast]

I just thought I'd say that when I said I'd be happy to mock up any new units etc with but only with your permission, I really meant only if you'd like me to. I'd like to help out if you're short of time, but it's far more important that the mod keeps its sense of identity as your creation, if you know what I mean.

I was just thinking because Foodstamp said in another thread how he changed one of his mods loads because of feedback, and ended up hating it. That would be really bad.

[Sombre]

Well Vaettihiem SE was originally a sample mod made by QM to serve as a tutorial, so in a sense it's not exactly my work to begin with and belongs to the community.

I'm completely happy for you to work on it - if you can do graphics then go right ahead and edit/use mine, if not then I can new graphics for new units. Basically we can work on it together if you want.

I'm taking a break from modding until this weekend, at which point I can do a bit more on Vaettihiem, sort out some Arga Dis stuff etc.

As far as the draconians are concerned, I've used them in a SP game to deal a fair bit of damage by adding a squad of them to vaetti/troll armies and setting them to hold then attack rear. They aren't amazing in a fight, but enough of them can tear archers and mages apart, provided you keep the other troops off them. They can be used to paradrop behind lines, but it might not be cost effective.

[llamabeast]

Cool, that sounds really good. I guess I'll probably end up being quite short of modding time myself, since the plan is that any spare time I fancy doing something constructive I funnel into developing the llamaserver. But I'll definitely try to have a tinker with the vaetti when I get a chance.

Let me know what you think of my comments/suggestions when you get a chance.

[Sombre]

After a bit of discussion with llamabeast, I've decided to add Vaetti netters, Vaetti sorcerors and a Vaetti Hermit national hero to the nation.

Archers and groundbreakers will get new graphics (somewhat cleaner) and groundbreakers will get slightly altered stats.

Draconians will be removed entirely and replaced with the Speros, primitive mountain dwelling winged lizardmen who aren't coldblooded and can use some weapons. They'll have a regular infantry version and a chieftan to lead them. Slightly smaller and cheaper than dracs, but same purpose.

I might also do some kind of white werewolf hero.

I'll stick up some graphics tonight or tomorrow using mediafire.

[llamabeast]

*is very excited*