is aircraft worth it?

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan

Which is only realistic, mind you You cannot run the data cables too far

I am not so sure how realistic it is to put all your air defences in a 200x200 meters zone.

[Marek_Tucan]

Originally Posted by Wdll

I am not so sure how realistic it is to put all your air defences in a 200x200 meters zone.

Take it as simulation of external FC radar - bear in minf that in SP, EACH SAM unit has its own, so keeping 'em concentrated offsets it a bit.

[Wdll]

Well, even if I accept this as "realistic", it is a huge exploit-game balance issue IMO. The human player has to choose to either annihilate all the AI's static air defences in one turn as long as he locates a single unit of them, or ignore them to not exploit this, which doesn't feel very right either. I don't know, I just hope that the way the AI places them changes in the future. It's not a game breaking issue (and I am sure for many it is not even an issue), but...

[Imp]

Same goes with your arty it should not be spread all over the map, in a nod to game scale tend to place mine 100-150m apart rather than adjacent.
Restrict your arty or its caliber & you will have a harder time takeing them out.
If mobile hit them with a mortar so they scatter if you don't like it then find them again.

[Suhiir]

*blinks*

Who needs a harder time taking them out?
Maybe half the time, probably closer to 35%, do I manage to actually destroy the AI's artillery. After 2,3, often 4 barrages of counterbattery (using an entire battery of my guns VS one single position/hex) by me the crew may .. . may . . . abandon the weapon.

I sometimes wonder if I'm playing the same game folks talk about here *chuckles*.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

*blinks*

Who needs a harder time taking them out?
Maybe half the time, probably closer to 35%, do I manage to actually destroy the AI's artillery. After 2,3, often 4 barrages of counterbattery (using an entire battery of my guns VS one single position/hex) by me the crew may .. . may . . . abandon the weapon.

I sometimes wonder if I'm playing the same game folks talk about here *chuckles*.

Several things to take into account before doing onboard CB fire.

1st I often do not bother unless I know or think its a heavy gun.
2nd how far through the game is it could be running out of ammo soon anyway

These are important because your guns will be away from the front lines for a while
Call time of 1.5 plus 2 turns to bombard means 6 turns minimum they are not suppresing the front line.

If you do CB using a Batt is a waste unless a tight group.
2 Mortars or guns if they wont reach on target should route & convince to run with the second go in most instances. If they are in rough I would not bother or assign a 3rd gun. If you think did not hit to well or side seems to rally well leaving one gun for an extra turn falling just back from in the position it routed to should stop it recovering.
This is an ideal use for your plane that just has its cannon left send it in on turn 2 so you see it & know its running.

Basically if you are going to CB you need to route it badly enough so it continues running. 2 or 3 guns will achieve this & one will remind it to keep running.

Truth is though I only do it if I am struggling for targets or know its something nasty as arty is much more useful giving my front line an easier ride. Especially if you are a mech force the best defence against arty is to move strike hard & relocate before it hits. If playing foot sloogers all you can do is diperse if you think its coming in trying to get platoon leaders clear as a priority.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Imp

These are important because your guns will be away from the front lines for a while.
Call time of 1.5 plus 2 turns to bombard means 6 turns minimum they are not suppressing the front line.

To be honest I've pretty well given up trying to fire mortars/artillery on the front lines.
With the automatic scatter for the first volley (unless you have a high tech FO spotting) and my incredible luck - I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say close to 75% of the time it scatters toward my units - and the lack of effect suppression seems to have on the AI until it builds to about 50+ I find I hinder myself far more then the AI trying to hit the front lines.
I tend to stick to countermortar/battery and air defense suppression.

Originally Posted by Imp

If you do CB using a Batt is a waste unless a tight group.
2 Mortars or guns if they wont reach on target should route & convince to run with the second go in most instances. If they are in rough I would not bother or assign a 3rd gun. If you think did not hit to well or side seems to rally well leaving one gun for an extra turn falling just back from in the position it routed to should stop it recovering.
This is an ideal use for your plane that just has its cannon left send it in on turn 2 so you see it & know its running.

Basically if you are going to CB you need to route it badly enough so it continues running. 2 or 3 guns will achieve this & one will remind it to keep running.

Truth is though I only do it if I am struggling for targets or know its something nasty as arty is much more useful giving my front line an easier ride. Especially if you are a mech force the best defense against arty is to move strike hard & relocate before it hits. If playing foot sloggers all you can do is disperse if you think its coming in trying to get platoon leaders clear as a priority.

Only on rare occasions have I seen AI controlled mortars/artillery/SAM's collect enough suppression from less then 3 to 6 tubes of anything smaller then 155mm for the crew to rout. I just wish my troops were that steady under fire!

That's probably the difference, I tend to play with infantry heavy forces so running away is rarely an option, and AI indirect fire has an uncanny ability to land at the worst possible place at the worst possible moment, so suppressing it really does have to be a priority.

I rarely play with more then two batteries of off-map artillery on my side, and I pretty much have to leave them to the automatic counter battery routine to deal with the battalions of artillery the AI tends to have. So most of my counterbattery is done with 60mm, 81mm, 4.2"/120mm mortars - not the most effective weapons in the world for it, but all that I have available.

[Wdll]

What is the point of spreading out my artillery? Does the AI ever attack it?

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Wdll

What is the point of spreading out my artillery? Does the AI ever attack it?

Thats most certainly a yes but not in a half hearted maner seems to be mainly if its struggling for targets it will slap you hard. And I dont play the AI much.

[Wdll]

I don't even remember when it was the last time the AI attacked my artillery. I play single player often. The AI will attack my air defences some times, but not the other type of artillery.