Up to date beta patch info..

[Jourin]

Freyland,

Your attack is uncalled for.

If you had been a fan of SEIII you would know the history behind SEIV. SEIV was delayed many times because it wasn't finished and MM has a high quality standard - the best I have seen from ANY company. We the customer put extreme pressure on MM to release the game even if it is not ready - with comments like - we don't care about features or bugs just release the game.

MM agreed that SEIV would be released minus some features (like a good AI) as long as it had no obvious bugs. But MM also stated that they would continue to support the game with numerous patches to add these features and also fix any bugs that were discovered.

So do not attack MM for releasing an unfinished game - attack the large vocal customer base that demanded MM release the game unfinished.

The big difference between MM and ALL other companies is that MM will keep their word and finish the game, while all the other big companies just take your money and run.

I was against an early release, but am now glad MM did it. The game is fun to play in its current state, but more important MM listens to and incorporates our suggestions. Yes we are all beta testers, but unlike other companies, MM actually listens to and uses our input. A game designed to specific customer specs is the best game there can be.

So be patient. If you do not want to play now, come back in 6 months and then drool at the game - but then don't complain that an important feature wasn't added because you choose not to participate.

The game support from MM is the standard that All other companies should copy, so be happy that you are getting the best support on the market.

[Lerchey]

Jourin,

Well said. And I could not agree more. I've been a SE IV beta tester from the outset, and Aaron at Malfador LISTENS and FIXES things when they are broken. Further, suggestions are listened to, and when both practical and good, are added to the game.

In fact, while it's somewhat off topic, I'd say that this is true of all of the game producers that Shrapnel distributes for. I'm also a WDK 2K beta tester and Boku Strategy Games is just as good. They enchance and improve their products constantly - taking guidance and feedback from their customers.

THIS is how game companies should be run.

Is SE IV incomplete? Yes, in ways it is. The AI is mediocre, but the game is FULL of tech and features. And as a PBEM game (which I prefer; my lack of dedicated time for gaming makes RTS impractical for me) it's excellent.

If you want to complain about some aspect of the game, don't ***** at each other on the forum. TELL the people at Malfador. It's their product and they DO listen.

Flame off.

John

[Resident Alien]

If you want to call somebody an idiot just write it in simple words please. The "clever" usenet over the top BS style is just so boring for the audience.

quote:

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Originally posted by Freyland:

Courageous, you are a blind fool. You speak without knowledge, and therefore without wisdom. Your comment on my experience on playing games is so foolish as to require no explanation. Now look again at the list of fixes in the first post of this thread. Go ahead, we'll wait.........
Very good. I would not be surprised if this was the first time you looked. Those are *fixes*, my ignorant friend, fixes. Things put into the game which did not work. Look through the postings on this board. The AI is a joke. Inconsistent. The experienced Modd'ers have said more than once that all the different AI respond the same, regardless of whether they are serene or Bloodthirsty. But you probably never read those threads, either, did you? Please go back to your regularly scheduled blissful ignorance and quit drooling on your keyboard.

Jonathan

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[Comar]

This isn't the place for a flame war. If you want to go after each other, take it somewhere else. If you want to talk about the game, this is the place.

Is the game perfect? No. I'm sure MM is well aware of it. Are they supporting it and making it better? Yes. In fact, they even ask for your imput to make it the game you want it to be. Are we, the players, perfect? No. Can we have a lot of fun with this game and each other? Yep. If you want to fight, join or start a game and have at it. And may the best man, plant, crystal, etc. win.

[Freyland]

Uh, Jourin? In the post to which you refer, I did not "attack" MM, I "attacked" Courageous. Furthermore, you continue to say it is not MM's fault that the game is incomplete, that it is the "fan base's" fault. Huh? Did someone hack into his machine, steal the program, professionally burn it into disks, and convince Shrapnel it was done? I think not. The responsibility rests well. Furthermore, you continue to talk about how great MM is about patches and committment. As I stated in another thread on the matter, I applaud him for that. Nothing changes that a game is supposed to be "complete" when it is released (and paid for). Your blind faith is leaving you just that, blind. I know I am angering some people, but I am allowed my opinion, and frankly, deep down you all know I am right. You just are too devoted to accept it. The word is "sycophant", I believe.

[b]Resident Alien /[b] stated, "If you want to call somebody an idiot just write it in simple words please.

Okay... you're an idiot.

Jonathan

[Arc.Smiloid]

Better smooth this over before ugly turns to fugly...

Courageous was referring to SEIV's status relevant to other games on the market that were released in worse states than SEIV.. He was implying that it could have been worse, but this is well made up for by MM's reputation of pleasing the people.. I heard something along the lines of 17 patches for SEIII!!!

While the game may not have been perfect, at least MM is putting the blood and sweat into fixing bugs and improving the game. Many people are waiting for the game to be 'completed' before they resume playing it. And we have proof that he is working on it with the posted changes they are working on.

But here's the logic to releasing the game before it was truly ready:

Having released it to the public we all have played it, and we all suggest changes to improve the game. Now instead of Aaron and a select few beta testers giving ideas, nearly a thousand brilliant minds are giving thoughts to improving the game (The Modders especially). So it gets built properly the first time without having to go back and completely overhaul the game to get it right.
(We all basically get to be Beta Testers, and we all have a voice!)

Just be thankful MM isn't going to take all our suggestions and make us pay for an expansion pack to complete the game.
(Better not give him ideas eh?)

I am not at all ashamed I bought this game in its incompleteness. I'm happy to support MM and his hard work!

[Talenn]

Well, dollar per fun value, I've already gotten my money's worth out of this game....even if I put it on the shelf and never played it again.

I agree that it might have gone out a bit prematurely in the AI department. I think that is one critical element in any game like this where the multiplayer potential is solely a LONG term commitment to a PBEM. I'm willing to bet that most folks want to play it 'out of the box' and have a challenging game.

BUT, I'm also convinced (and using SE3 as a guideline) that MM is doing everything possible to enhancce the game experience. I much prefer it this way to the 'finished product' that has serious issues that you get from many other companies. At least with SE4 I feel like I have a voice in upcoming patches and that counts for ALOT!

I think what is necessary is a constant flow of info BOTH ways. The designer(s) gets input from the fan base and has the responsibility to reciprocate with info and patches in a timely manner. I think MM is doing an admirable job of this. I'd like to see it continue.

Here's hoping that the newest patch is coming up soon at that will at least appease the masses for the immediate future!

Talenn

[Bakunine]

Isn´t the problem that the MM want to make a AI that doesn´t cheat?
Well if he does that I think he will make history.
Until know I never played a 4X in which the AI doesn´t cheat at least in the higher levels.
I´ve seen here Posts saying that if computers can beat man in chess than it would be "easy" to beat us in a game like this.

1- Chess rules contain little number of variables. SE4 contains thousands.

2-Others say we would need a Deep Blue to run the game to make the AI really clever. Well I think that there´s nobody here, unless there´s here a really good chess player that would win a chess game in my old 48K Spectrum.

Others (very few) complain that they were fooled and bought a incomplete game. Well it was easy to avoid that.
Download the demo (a really good to evaluate tool since it´s not a tutorial, it´s not a mission, it´s a game with some limitacions) and try it.

Being a somekind of BetaTester isn't in my wishes but to many who bought the game is. So it's a think that everyone should respect.

I only started contact with SE series in SE4 and by seeing that MM released the game earlier by request of the long time Users only show the respect he as for the long time supporters (one think that is very rare). In a purely marketing and bussiness way of view it would be much more profitable to wait a few months and launch a much more perfect game.

[Jubala]

For those who think SE4 wasn't finished on release, go buy Braveheart and you'll see unfinished in all it's glory. The game always crashed at a certain ingame date (don't remember how many turns, but not many, between 30 and 50 I think), half the features advertised on the box didn't work or where not even there to not work. The one(two?) patch(es?) released didn't even fix anything, it(they?) simply disabled the features that didn't work resulting in an even more incomplete game. And the AI was so poor that it wasn't much of a challenge to beat the game before it chrashed. I never did it myself as I was disgusted by the frequent crashes but some dedicated fans on the Boards reported doing it. Eventually even they gave up and the board turned into very ugly bash the developer rants. That game is a prime example of creating major hype about a game, then releasing a piss poor product to an unsuspecting public that bought it hook line and sinker while the developers took their money and ran.

Now compare the above with SE4. I rest my case.

[Seawolf]

A point that has been missed by all I think in this thread the reason why MM puts out the SE series is to make money!. How much do you think it cost to burn and mail the CD's? Don't you think that Aaron and the others have bills to be paid? I agree that a game should be complet but hey there hasn't been any game that didn't need clarification or improvement in my 20 + years of gamming.

Also MM stated that the game was still evolving and since they are working on it and are making patches for it means in the end, at no additional cost by the way, you will have a complete game.

Since this is a democracy, well it was til this election that is, you can voice your opinion. I suggest that you continure to say what is wrong with it so we can get it fixed faster.

P.S Since they sold so many I guess your view i sin the minority

Thus endth the sermon

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Seawolf on the prowl